Deeper Waters Podcast 6/28/2014: Donald Williams

What’s coming up on this Saturday’s episode of the Deeper Waters Podcast? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

Many of us are familiar with the work of C.S. Lewis and have imbibed his work extensively. The work that comes most to mind is Mere Christianity. C.S. Lewis as we also know was part of a group called the inklings and he himself had been deeply influenced by the writer G.K. Chesterton. One of Lewis’s best friends was the writer J.R.R. Tolkien, especially well known for his work “The Lord of the Rings.”

We know about Mere Christianity, but do we know about Mere Humanity?

Mere Humanity is a book that I read several years ago by Donald Williams and enjoyed immensely. When I saw him commenting recently on a Facebook thread, I decided I’d see if he was interested in coming on the show to talk about the book. As you can tell from this post, he accepted. So who is Donald Williams?

Summit-Teaching

And according to his bio:

Raised in a Christian home, Donald T. Williams devoted his life to Christ at an early age. Recognizing by his high-school years that he had a strong drive for the integration of faith and learning, he felt called to a ministry of preaching, teaching, and writing. He holds a BA in English from Taylor University, an M.Div. from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, and a PhD in Medieval and Renaissance Literature from the University of Georgia. He is the author of nine books: The Person and Work of the Holy Spirit (Nashville: Broadman, 1994; reprint, Wipf & Stock), The Disciple’s Prayer (Christian Publications, 1999; reprint, Wipf & Stock), Mere Humanity: G. K. Chesterton, C. S. Lewis, and J. R. R. Tolkien on the Human Condition (Broadman, 2006), Credo: Meditations on the Nicene Creed (St. Louis: Chalice Press, 2007), The Devil’s Dictionary of the Christian Church (Chalice Press, 2008), Stars Through the Clouds: The Collected Poetry of Donald T. Williams (Lynchburg: Lantern Hollow Press, 2011), Reflections from Plato’s Cave: Essays in Evangelical Philosophy (Lynchburg: Lantern Hollow Press, 2012), Inklings of Reality: Essays toward a Christian Philosophy of Letters, 2nd edition, revised & expanded (Lantern Hollow Press, 2012), and Gaining a Face: the Romanticism of C. S. Lewis, coauthored with Jim Prothero (Cambridge: Cambridge Scholar’s Press, 2013).. He has also contributed essays, poems, and reviews to such journals as National Review, Christianity Today, Touchstone, Modern Reformation, The Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society, Philosophia Christi, Theology Today, Christianity and Literature, Christian Scholar’s Review, Mythlore, SEVEN: An Anglo-American Literary Review, Christian Educator’s Journal, Preaching, and Christian Research Journal. An ordained minister in the Evangelical Free Church of America with many years of pastoral experience, he has spent several summers in Africa and India training local pastors for Church Planting International, and currently serves as R. A. Forrest Scholar and Professor of English at Toccoa Falls College in the hills of NE Georgia.

Mere Humanity is a look at the human condition in light of Christianity according to the thinking of these great men. As Christians, we are to know who Christ is definitely, but we also need to know who we are. Mere Humantiy is an excellent look at the human condition through some minds whose works have quickly become Christian classics. Those interested in purchasing this book are invited to go here.

I hope you’ll be looking for this show to come out!

Deeper Waters Podcast 6/21/2014: Braxton Hunter

What’s going to be recorded this Saturday on the Deeper Waters Podcast? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters!

Awhile back, I reviewed a book called Core Facts by Braxton Hunter. The time has come to have him come on the show for his interview. Dr. Hunter’s bio reads as follows:

Dr. Braxton Hunter is the former president of the Conference of Southern Baptist Evangelists (COSBE). As professor of apologetics at Trinity College of the Bible and Theological Seminary in Newburgh, Indiana, Dr. Hunter is passionate about the defense of the Christian faith in a skeptical world.

Though a young man of 33 years of age, Dr. Hunter has already preached in some of the nation’s largest churches while sharing the conference stage with such notables as Dr. Stephen Olford, Dr. Peter Lord, Dr. Johnny Hunt, Dr. Junior Hill, Dr. Jerry Vines, Dr. Fred Luter, and Dr. Bobby Welch.

He has served two churches as senior pastor and both congregations saw dramatic growth. The latter church, Cornerstone of Mcminnville, Tennessee, grew from an average worship attendance of 275 to 550 in two years. The church tripled its income under Dr. Hunter’s direction and averaged 80 baptisms per year. He was named Religious Leader of the Year for 2004 in Warren County, Tennessee.

In addition to his pastoral achievements, Dr. Hunter has conducted area television crusades, successful revivals at very large and small churches alike. Having a heart for teens, he speaks in high school assembly programs and holds the attention of the entire student body as few speakers are capable of doing. He challenges the youth to a noble life devoid of drugs, alcohol and sexual immorality. He has been the speaker for youth events with dove award winning performers such as Sanctus Real and Brit Nicole.

He holds a B.A. in expository preaching, an M.A. in Theology and a Ph.D. in Christian Apologetics.

Dr. Hunter is the author of Blinding Lights: The Glaring Evidences of the Christian Faith, Death is a Doorway, Core Facts: The Strategy for Understandable and Teachable Christian Defense, and his forthcoming scholarly work, Evangelistic Apologetics.

He currently resides with his wife, Sarah and their two daughters, Jolie and Jaclyn, in Evansville, Indiana.

braxton

Core Facts is a good entry book for those who are wanting to start their apologetics studies and Dr. Huunter also has the bonus of including a dialogue that he’s done live in a debate where he used these Core Facts in order to demonstrate Christianity. Even as I was thinking over this last night in getting set to write the blog post, I found that I could still easily name the Core Facts despite my not having read the book in a few months. That’s something important.

I urge anyone to be listening if at all possible as there could be a way we are going to go live soon. If not, then feel free to send a tweet to me on Twitter (Apologianick) or message me on Facebook or send an email to me (Apologianick@gmail.com) with any question you might have for Dr. Hunter concerning his book.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Deeper Waters Podcast 6/14/2014: How Do We Know?

What’s coming up when I record the Deeper Waters Podcast this Saturday? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

For those wondering when the episodes will be up soon for your listening pleasure, we are working on that. I will be meeting a techie friend of mine tonight who is going to show Allie and I everything that we need to know to get them online. We are working to do all that we can, but we would appreciate any support from those of you who do like the podcast and want it to keep going.

But for now, let’s move on to this Saturday’s show. What are we talking about?

Epistemology.

Dang. That sounds exciting. Some of you might be wondering what that is.

Epistemology is the study of knowledge. What is knowledge and how do we know anything at all? In fact, the book we’ll be looking at is by two Christian authors named James K. Dew Jr. and Mark W. Foreman. The book is “How Do We Know?” It is an introduction to epistemology.

So who are these guys?

Let’s start with James Dew since he’s listed first on the book.

“Dr. Jamie Dew grew up in Statesville, NC but moved to Raleigh, NC in 1994. Through the witness of some of his friends, he came to Christ when he was 18 years old and surrendered to vocational ministry shortly thereafter. He earned a B.S. in Biblical Studies from Toccoa Falls College in Toccoa, GA in 2000 and then moved to Wake Forest, NC to work on his graduate degrees. He earned his PhD in Theological Studies from Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in 2008, and is working on a second PhD in Philosophy from the University of Birmingham in England. He is the author of Science and Theology: An Assessment of Alister McGrath’s Critical Realist Perspective (Wipf & Stock, 2010), co-author of How Do We Know?: A Short Introduction to the Issues of Knowledge (IVP, 2013), and co-editor of God and Evil: The Case for God in a World Filled with Pain (IVP, 2013). Dr. Dew pastored in NC for 10 years, and also served in various churches as a Youth Pastor and Minister to Adults. Now, Dr. Dew is the Vice President for Undergraduate Studies and Academic Support and is the Dean of the College at Southeastern. He has been married for 13 years to his wife Tara and they have two sets of twins: Natalie & Nathan (6) and Samantha & Samuel (3).”

Dew_2

And who is Mark Foreman?

“Mark W. Foreman is professor of philosophy and religion at Liberty
University where he has taught philosophy, apologetics, and bioethics for 25 years. He has an MABS from Dallas Theological Seminary and an MA and Ph.D. from the University of Virginia. He is the author of Christianity and Bioethics (College Press, 1999, [reprint Wipf and Stock, 2011] ), Prelude to Philosophy: An Introduction for Christians (InterVarsity Press, 2014), How Do We Know: An Introduction to Epistemology (with James K. Dew,Jr., InterVarsity Press, 2014) and articles in the Encyclopedia of Christian Civilization (Wiley-Blackwell, 2012), Popular Encyclopedia of Apologetics (Harvest House, 2008) as well as chapters in Come Let us Reason: New Essay in Christian Apologetics (B&H, 2012) Steven Spielberg and Philosophy (with David Baggett, University of Kentucky Press, 2008) and Tennis and Philosophy (University of Kentucky Press, 2010). Mark has been a member of Evangelical Philosophical Society for over 20 years and is currently serving as vice-president of the society. His specializations are Christian apologetics, biomedical ethics and ethics.”

Foreman

Please be looking for this broadcast as we discuss their books and questions related to it such as “Is faith an epistemology” as Peter Boghossian claims, and “Is science the only way or the highest way of knowing?” as many internet atheists claim.

I hope to have everything up shortly. Be watching!

In Christ,
Nick Peters

New Resource: Defining Inerrancy

What’s the latest resource available from Deeper Waters? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters!

As readers of this blog know, I’ve been on the forefront of Norman Geisler’s attacks on my father-in-law, Mike Licona. I’ve been constantly at work showing that the criticisms don’t work and that in fact, Geisler’s approach as well as that of his followers will severely cripple the ability of the church to engage the culture. If anything will produce more Bart Ehrmans, it is the approach of Geisler.

Today, my ministry partner, J.P. Holding, and I have unveiled our latest work in this area bringing this out beyond just the blogs and YouTube. Now you can hold much of the information we’ve written as well as some new content in your hands, well, provided those hands have a Kindle or a tool that can read a Kindle.

May I introduce to you Defining Inerrancy!

This book is equipped to help you realize that not only do we hold to inerrancy, but that it can be defended without it having to be the style that Geisler and his company insist on. There is inerrancy that can stand proud recognizing the truths discovered through years of work and scholarship in the Gospels rather than one that will shun the academy and lead to a rigid fundamentalism.

Not only do we have excellent content in here, but we have a great foreword by Craig Blomberg himself. Blomberg in his foreword lays out the importance of the Ebook that we’ve written and why it is that he thinks that this battle matters as well.

The question in all of this has never really been about inerrancy, though some want to make it about inerrancy. It’s been more about how it is that the Bible is to be handled in this time. Geisler’s approach leads to a rigid literalism and disregards the work of the academy on grounds that no serious NT scholar will take seriously. You can be sure that the students who are taking Geisler’s work and embracing it might be able to intellectually somehow convince themselves that Ehrman is wrong, but they will not be able to convince others.

For a Christian to be able to defend the NT today, he’s going to need to be able to interact with modern NT scholarship and show from the viewpoint of scholarship when a case is wrong. Is there such a thing as bad NT scholarship out there? Just as much as there is bad theology and bad philosophy! What’s the antidote to this? It’s not to eliminate all NT scholarship any more than it is to eliminate all philosophy and theology. The antidote is good and sound scholarship. If your case is true, there will be evidence for that case.

I urge everyone to please go out today and pick up a copy of Defining Inerrancy and tell your friends about it as well. I hope that this volume will equip you to be able to go out and defend the truth of Scripture to a new generation and for that new generation.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Deeper Waters Podcast 5/24/2014: Peter Davids

What’s coming up this Saturday on the Deeper Waters Podcast? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

For many of us, the meat of the NT is usually thought to be found in Paul, which is a shame since we usually avoid the Gospels in that way. We will then when we want our dose of information about the end times turn to the book of Revelation. In between are these epistles not nearly discussed so much called the Catholic Epistles.

Fortunately, that group doesn’t include the Deeper Waters Podcast.

That’s why I’m proud to bring on another person from Houston Baptist University. Davids serves there as the visiting professor of Theology.

PeterDavids

In his own words….

“Born in 1947 in Syracuse, New York, of English extraction Peter Davids later moved with his family to Lynchburg, Virginia, where he graduated from E. C. Glass High School. He later went on the study at Wheaton College (BA in Psychology), Trinity Evangelical Divinity School (M.Div.), and the University of Manchester (Ph.D., 1974). His first teaching position was in Germany. After being confirmed in the Anglican communion in 1976, he was founding faculty of Trinity Episcopal School for Ministry near Pittsburgh, PA, where he was ordained in the Episcopal Church in 1979. It was while teaching there that his first book (James in the NIGTC) was published. He subsequently taught and ministered in Canada (1983 – 1996), Austria (1996 – 2002), Houston, Texas (2002 – 2006, 2011 – present) and again in Canada (2006 – 2010). He is currently Visiting Professor of Theology at Houston Baptist University. He is the author or editor of more than 10 books, most of them covering the Catholic Epistles. He is also committed to church ministry, having been preaching since he was 15. While at Wheaton College, he married the former Judith Lee Bouchillon of Houston Texas, who is a pastoral counselor and spiritual director. Together they have had 4 children, three of them living, and now have 8, almost 9 grandchildren, all of whom live in Canada.”

And yes, almost 9 grandchildren because the latest one is due to come on May 30th? Will he cooperate and be born then? We don’t know, but congrats to the mother and father and to Davids as a proud grandparent.

Naturally, with eight epistles, we’ll only be scratching the surface, but I hope that we will say enough that it will inspire you to read the epistles yourself a bit more closely and come to realize that these parts of the Bible are just as much Scripture as the rest and be thankful that God put them in there for us to benefit from.

Now I’d like to be able to tell you that there’s a link you can go to directly to listen to the show and I’d like to tell you what the call-in number is, but this time, I do not know how. Somehow I am going to have to record this using a Skype recorder and then leave it to that to get up on ITunes or a place like that.

This has to be done because sadly, we do not have the donations coming in to do this. If anyone was interested, we can get a position on blogtalkradio for $40 a month or $400 a year. This is definitely what I would prefer as it is much easier and efficient, particularly for someone not technologically skilled like myself. If anyone wants to make that possible, please hit the donate button and let me know or go to RisenJesus.com, the ministry of Mike Licona and say you want to keep the Deeper Waters Podcast going as is. (Note that all donations to Risen Jesus have the benefit that we get every penny.)

Until that happens or I find the funding on my own to get the show up, that’s the way it’s going to have to be.

But I will be recording the show at the same time as always and let’s hope that I do it right! I hope that whenever it does go up, you’ll be listening as well!

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Book Plunge: The Wrong Jesus

What do I think of Greg Monette’s book? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

Greg Monette is a good friend of mine who is doing his doctoral work under Craig Evans. He recently sent me his book “The Wrong Jesus” and wanted to see what I would think of it. I am pleased to say that this is a book I can indeed highly recommend for seekers and those learning to defend their faith.

Monette starts off with a piece on why it is that history matters. He talks about his own journey into doubt and how it was that the only way to get past it was to study the evidence. He gives the wise advice that there are no shortcuts in this field. I fully agree and that is something that must be stated in our society today that likes to think that everything is right at our fingertips which should include understanding. Data and facts can be present immediately to us. The understanding of that data is not.

He also deals early on with the idea that Jesus never even existed. While I think he did a fine job on this chapter, I was concerned that Richard Carrier was never mentioned. It is not because Carrier makes good arguments against Jesus’s existence. It is that Carrier is much better known to the laypeople I suspect than Robert Price, which I particularly notice when atheists regularly cite Carrier in response to any scholar whatsoever.

From here on, Monette deals with various questions such as the reliability of the New Testament texts, the question of if archaeology has helped us understand the Bible, if Jesus was a femininist, were the birth accounts based on legends, and were the Gospels written by eyewitnesses. Of course, there are others, but these are all important questions to be asked.

In fact, a major criticism that I would have is that in fact the book is not long enough. There were many areas I would have liked to have seen more expansion on. Sometimes it would seem like I’d get enough to just get someone’s feet wet and then it’d move on. Still, I understand the book could have been doubled in size had my desires been met. Fortunately, Monette does make up for this by having recommended reading at the end of every chapter.

Also at the end of every chapter there is a section that contains questions for discussion. I find this to be an important aspect to have in a book like this and I would be thrilled if the day came that people were reading The Wrong Jesus in church small groups more than reading books by, say, Rachel Held Evans or Joyce Meyer or others.

Monette also throws a lot of humor into the book which I consider a plus. An excellent example of this is his counter-theories to the resurrection where he plays out humorously why the opposing explanations for the resurrection just do not work. There is a good deal of sarcasm involved here which is always a bonus for me.

One aspect that is lacking in the book is that there is no index. It would be incredibly helpful to be able to look up something in the index for future reference if anyone comes back to the book for a second time, which I would encourage that they do.

In conclusion, Monette has given the church an excellent book that is well-written and engaging and can keep the reader’s interest. More importantly, it’s filled with excellent information that will prepare the reader to go out and fulfill the Great Commission.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Deeper Waters Podcast 5/17/2014: Randy Richards

What’s coming up this Saturday on the Deeper Waters Podcast? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

One of the great mistakes I often see us doing with Scripture is reading it as if it was written for our audience in modern language and terminology and with our culture specifically in mind. This can lead to many errors when reading the Bible. Fortunately, there’s a great book out that deals with these errors called “Misreading Scripture With Western Eyes.”

And fortunately, one of the co-authors of that book, Randy Richards, is going to be my guest this Saturday on the Deeper Waters Podcast. Who is he? His faculty page describes him in this way:

richards 1

“Dr. Randy Richards loves training students for ministry, both domestically and internationally. He has been teaching since 1986, originally at a state university and then abroad at an Indonesian seminary. Upon returning to the States, Dr. Richards served at two Christian universities before joining Palm Beach Atlantic University as the dean of the School of Ministry in 2006.

His wife Stacia has joyfully accompanied him from jungles of Indonesia to rice fields in Arkansas to beautiful South Florida. They have two fine sons: Josh (Ph.D. 2012, University of St. Andrews, Scotland), a university professor in English, and Jacob (Ph.D. 2014, College of Medicine, University of Florida), a medical researcher.

Dr. Richards has authored or co-authored five books and dozens of articles. He recently published Misreading Scripture with Western Eyes with Brandon O’Brien (InterVarsity, 2012); “Reading, Writing, and the Production and Transmission of Manuscripts” in The Background of the New Testament: An Examination of the Context of Early Christianity (Baker, 2013); “Will the Real Author Please Stand Up? The Author in Greco-Roman Letter Writing” in Come Let Us Reason: New Essays in Christian Apologetics (B&H, 2012); “Pauline Prescripts and Greco-Roman Epistolary Convention” in Christian Origins and Classical Culture: Social and Literary Contexts for the New Testament (Brill, 2012); and a dozen articles in The Baker Illustrated Bible Dictionary (Baker, 2013).

This year, he is finishing a new textbook, Rediscovering Jesus, and another popular book, Paul Behaving Badly, both with InterVarsity Press. He is also completing chapters in two other books.

Dr. Richards is a popular lecturer, speaker and preacher, recently in places as diverse as Wycliffe Hall (Oxford), Kathmandu, and Kenya. He was a Senior Scholar at the IRLBR Summer Summit at Tyndale House (Cambridge) in 2013. He regularly conducts missionary training workshops, and currently serves as a teaching pastor at Grace Fellowship Church in West Palm Beach.”

Misreading Scripture With Western Eyes is the kind of book I wish every Christian would read. It would prevent a multitude of errors and while love covers over a multitude of sins, accurate knowledge covers and prevents a multitude of errors.

I hope you’ll be listening in then this Saturday from 3-5 PM EST. This is going to be an important show. As always, we will be able to take your questions if you wish to call in. The number will be 714-242-5180. I hope that you’ll be taking advantage of getting to hear a scholar speak on this important issue.

The link can be found here.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Book Plunge: Core Facts

What do I think of Braxton Hunter’s book? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

Braxton Hunter is a professor of Christian apologetics who holds a PH.D. in the same field. He’s recently written a book called “Core Facts” written to not just give a good start to apologetics, but it also is a kind of teaching guide to help others learn how to do apologetics.

The presentation that Hunter presents surrounds his “core facts.” The list is as follows:

C – Cause of the universe
O – Order of the universe
R – Rules of morality
E – Experience of God

F – Fatality of Jesus’s death on the cross
A – Appearances of Jesus to the disciples.
C – Commitment level of the disciples
T – Testimony of the disciples
S – Salvation taught through the Gospel.

Now granted there are some here that I would not use. At the start with the cause and order of the universe, the scientific arguments are cited, but this is something that gets me wondering at times. Is it because I am opposed to science? Not at all! Is it because I am opposed to scientific apologetics? Again, not at all! It is because I have this fear that too often we make the case scientific and I want to make sure that those of us who do have taken the time to learn the sciences not just for apologetics purposes but general purposes. This is the reason why I do not use scientific apologetics. I am not a scientist (And I don’t play one on TV) and I do not want to speak in a field that is not my area.

I also am cautious about the idea of the experience of God. The problem is that experience is not an on-demand kind of thing and to this day, when Bill Craig gives his fifth way in a debate of knowing that God exists, I still cringe.

For the last group, I think in this day and age I would replace fatal with something like “Fact of Jesus’s existence.” There are more people who are Christ-mythers today than there are people who hold to the swoon theory.

For C, I would have probably gone with the idea of conversion, such as that of James and Paul. Why is it that those who were skeptical of the faith were the ones who later on joined it? They had nothing to gain and everything to lose. After all, C and T sounded awfully similar to me at times.

And as for S, an excellent ending would have been shamefulness of Christianity. It is too often overlooked that in the honor-shame context of the ancient Mediterranean world, Christianity was a shameful belief and that that belief not only survived in the face of persecution and shaming but also came to dominate is something that needs to be explained.

Still, the areas that Hunter does present, he does very well on. I was also pleased to hear him say that evolution is not a battle that we have to fight. Very few apologists make such a statement, but I agree entirely with Hunter. I would not argue it unless one was skilled in the sciences and making a purely scientific argument for or against. I only wish he’d gone further on this point and said that we can also go with an eternal universe or a multiverse and Christianity is still safe.

A bonus also is that Hunter does have tips at the end of each section for how to transition the material to a teaching presentation. This makes this kind of book ideal for a leader to use when teaching a class. There are several sidebars as well that provide more detailed information and Hunter has indeed read both sides of the issue.

If there’s one section though that contains poor argumentation, it’s the last one where Hunter has a debate that he did with the owner of an atheist forum who simply goes by the name “Will.” To be sure, the poor argumentation is not on the side of Hunter. It is on the side of Will. As I read this section I found myself repeatedly face-palming. It is embarrassing to see the arguments so many atheists use. Will uses everything from an insistence on YEC and Inerrancy, to a lack of understanding of biblical texts (Judges 21 has God commanding rape? Please find the command from God in there! It’s in fact showing what it was like when Israel was NOT following God.), to a Boghossian understanding of what faith is, and then going so far as to be a Christ-myther. (It should sadly be for the atheist community that they would want to get the Christ-mythers to be quiet. Instead, they champion them. Reality is there are more Ph.D. scientists who hold to a young-earth than there are Ph.D.’s in ancient and NT history that hold to the Christ myth theory. I also for clarification am not a YEC.)

Hunter answer very well, but the fact that Will is a preacher’s kid shows how bad a job is being done in educating the youth of our church. That anyone would think that these are serious arguments being put forward is a travesty. Now of course there are serious arguments atheism can put forward, but many used today are ones that should not be given the time of day. (And of course sadly, the same applies to many Christian arguments.)

In conclusion, while I don’t agree with everything Hunter says, naturally, I could recommend his book as a good resource to a starting apologetics class at a local church. It will become one that can easily be taught and easily discussed and the debate at the end should show how well the Core Facts can stand up to scrutiny. It is a work I could use myself. Braxton Hunter’s “Core Facts” has my endorsement.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Book Plunge: Doing Apologetics Without The Need For Apology

What do I think of Trevor Ray Slone’s work on winsome apologetics? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

In today’s culture, most apologists know that it is important to have the right answers to questions related to apologetics. What is also important is how one goes about doing apologetics. There are all different styles and this goes beyond presuppositional, classical, evidential, etc. Some people have a friendship evangelism. Some have a confrontational evangelism. Some will use sarcasm in apologetics. (Self included) Some will absolutely not. This also depends on the purpose of the encounter and what one hopes to accomplish.

Trevor Ray Slone sent me his manuscript on this topic. Slone wants us to know the purpose of apologetics is evangelism and not argumentation or proving that you are smarter than everyone else. In essence, this is true, but yet I have a concern popping up.

Is every apologetic encounter meant to lead the other person to Christ? I would say no. When William Lane Craig does a public debate for instance, he is not really trying to lead the other person to Christ I suspect. He’s doing that for the people in the audience. In the encounters of Christ in the NT, we do not see people like the Pharisees coming up after an exchange with Jesus asking to be forgiven. Jesus did not answer the Pharisees to win them to His side, but to keep them from drawing people over to their side. It was in the ancient world a clash of honor where the victor got the honor and the loser was shamed. This would mean that, yes, Jesus was trying to shame His opponents. (And might I say, He succeeded brilliantly!)

Slone also says the book came about when a student asked how to do apologetics that was winsome. Here, I wonder again. I understand the goal to be winsome. One does not bring offense for the pure sake of bringing offense, but is this a concern in the NT? After all, doesn’t the NT tell us to be concerned when the world speaks well of us?

But let us go on. Slone takes us first to 2 Cor. 10:1-5. Let’s look at the passage.

“By the humility and gentleness of Christ, I appeal to you—I, Paul, who am “timid” when face to face with you, but “bold” toward you when away! 2 I beg you that when I come I may not have to be as bold as I expect to be toward some people who think that we live by the standards of this world. 3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.”

Slone says some will notice he did not include verse 6. He tells us he did not do so because it is technically the end of the overall thought of this chapter and there are some burdensome (and he says time-consuming in parentheses) aspects involved in tying it in to those five verses.

Naturally, this got me wanting to look up what verse 6 was immediately and what do I see?

“And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete.”

This would indeed be hard to fit into being winsome, but I consider it a lack that it was not addressed. Would it be time-consuming? Yes. But if you are dealing with an argument, you want to be as thorough as possible. If the next verse could indicate to a reader that the rest of the passage is being read wrong, then what? What will happen later on when students are reading the text and thinking about what they learned in the book and then read the sixth verse?

The sixth verse shows in fact that the entire passage is a passage about spiritual warfare of some sort. Now of course, we condemn any physical violence in the apologetic methodology. (Although it is certainly interesting to know that was an effective method used when evangelizing the Vikings.) The text speaks of demolishing and taking captive and punishing. These are not positive terms.

For instance, the word for demolishing is used of destruction elsewhere in the epistle and in contrast to edification. The word for bringing captive is used in Luke to describe soldiers in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. taking the people captive. The word for punished is used to speak of vengeance. It’s asking people to be brought to justice and that they might be vindicated when they are wronged.

The whole passage then is a warfare passage so at this point, I see a problem already.

Slone speaks about humility in this passage. He says humility is “ultimately remembering and maintaining an active awareness of one’s wholehearted insufficiency apart from Christ, and there is nothing about boldness or any other potentially necessary attribute that negates the true necessity of such a mindset.”

Insofar as it goes, I agree with much of this. One can be bold and humble at the same time, yet I disagree at the start. Naturally, I do hold that we should realize we can do nothing without Christ and that our being relies on Him, but is that what humility is?

Let’s suppose Aristotle was writing hundreds of years before Christ. Could he write about the virtue of humility? Yes. Could he include the above definition? Not at all. One could still have humility without knowing a thing about Christ. True humility is simply recognizing where you are in the universe. It is not lifting yourself above your position, but it is also not lowering oneself below one’s position. One can fit that easily into a Christian paradigm with our relation to Christ, but the Christian paradigm does not define it.

Slone also tells us that Paul says that he was humble in face to face encounters. Yet here, I wondered about a passage that never shows up in Slone’s book. What about Galatians 2 where Paul opposes Peter to his face because he was clearly in the wrong? Paul gave a public shaming to Peter in this regards. Now I agree that Paul was humble in this, but would Slone’s readers know Paul was humble? How would that be explained beyond just saying Paul was humble?

At this point, we’ll move on to the next section which is 2 Tim. 2:23-26.

“23 Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. 24 And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. 25 Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 26 and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.”

Slone rightfully says at the start that this passage is intended for church leadership, but since the principles are moral in nature, then they can be seen as universal in scope.

I am again troubled because knowing this is church leadership could change the whole of the situation. Morality does not change to be sure, but some principles of ethics can differ based on the situation. Paul deals with some in 1 Cor. 8-10. He thinks it’s fine to eat meat offered to idols, but says that under some circumstances, it should not be done for the sake of others.

What is going on in the passage is in fact speaking about leaders in the church and what people to avoid. It is dealing with a private situation and not a public one. It is not talking about those who oppose the faith from without. It is also speaking not about foolish arguments, but THE foolish arguments. In other words, there’s a specific heretical teaching in mind. This is apparent because earlier in the chapter Paul has talked about people teaching a heresy that the resurrection has already come and the rest of this is a description of how to respond to teachers like that.

Timothy is in essence being told that he should avoid them and their heresy. It would say nothing about refuting their teaching. That should obviously be done when it is public, but in the private sphere, avoid a relationship with these heretics. That would be giving an endorsement to their teaching.

Unfortunately, I think Slone takes a dangerous stance at this point in the book. I read this passage to my own spouse to ask “Am I reading this wrong?” I am convinced that I am not. Slone says to avoid foolish arguments giving the example of talking about a baby pink unicorn. He says it does not exist, but it is not unbiblical to talk about one provided you are giving an analogy to explain something. I will not quote what Slone says at length.

“However, if you are arguing with someone about how big that unicorn will be when it is six months old for the express purpose of entertainment or just to waste time talking about something interesting, then this is not at all ultimately productive relative to leading people to Christ. So unless there is some higher purpose (actual purpose: not just an excuse/nominal purpose) in mind, such as building rapport to become better friends with so that they might be more open to hearing the gospel message from you in the future, then discussing something for the purpose of entertainment alone is inappropriate and a waste of time at best, and down-right sin at worst.” Slone says he knows this sound harsh, but we must remember that every moment we have is precious and could be a waste of potential time that could be spent leading someone to Christ.

From a pastoral perspective, I can imagine many counselors would be cringing at this statement. This is the kind of statement that I think leads many Christians into a panic about their Christian life and a shut down and much counseling and therapy.

It is hard to imagine that Paul when writing this passage was telling Timothy to never engage in small talk (Which I hate by the way) unless he was leading someone to Christ and that he was condemning any talk about baby pink unicorns.

The reality is we all do things every day that are not directly conducive to the Gospel, but are helpful in having us enjoy our lives and thus be of better service. Even Aquinas years ago said play was an important part of the Christian life. An excellent look at this can be found in Ben Witherington’s “The Rest of Life.”

When I read this I wondered “How long am I allowed to sleep during the day?” Is there a certain time limit whereby I am sinning since time spent sleeping could be spent leading someone to Christ? “How long can my meal times be?” After all, that could be time spent leading someone to Christ. Was I wrong when I was dating my wife and we were just watching a movie together by ourselves? After all, that was time that could be spent leading someone to Christ! We went on our honeymoon for about a week and that was not for the purposes of evangelism. Did we sin in doing that?

Now naturally, if one spent all their time in play, that would be a problem, but God made many good things for our enjoyment. (1 Tim. 6:17) How is it a sin to enjoy them?

Furthermore, am I to be a friend to someone just for the purpose of leading them to Christ? Naturally, if I am a friend to someone I will want to lead them to Christ or get them to grow in Christlikeness, but if they do not, am I to cease to be their friend? Can I not be a friend to someone just because I like their company? This gets me into the problem that too often, we see lost people as simply people to get to Jesus. They in essence become notches on an evangelism tally.

I see Slone’s statement then that I have quoted at length as a highly dangerous one. It is a kind of legalism that will put a burden on people that they cannot manage especially when it comes to areas of their life that are not evangelistic.

The next passage Slone brings us to is James 3:9-12. I do have a concern with this, but it is because of an overall lack I have seen and I will discuss that at the end of my review.

From here, we go into select passages from Proverbs and one immediately caught my eye and led to a problem. Slone gives us Proverbs 26:4 which reads as follows:

“Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
or you yourself will be just like him.”

Slone tells us that according to this verse, to not answer the fool according to his folly means to not answer in a similar manner. We are not to answer as a fool ourselves. We are to respond in a coherent and rational manner. Therefore, in following this advice, to not answer a fool according to his folly means to not answer foolishly and to answer in a coherent and rational manner.

Sounds good doesn’t it?

But what happens if someone reads the very next verse?

“Answer a fool according to his folly,
or he will be wise in his own eyes.”

What now? Am I to answer the fool then at this point in a foolish manner? Am I to answer him in an incoherent and irrational manner? If not answering according to his folly means not answering foolishly and answering in a coherent and rational manner, then it would seem answering according to his folly would mean the opposite.

Slone’s work leaves me wondering what am I to do with verse 5? What will happen when a student who reads comes across verse 5? What are they to think?

The reality is the Proverbs do not give us absolute principles but general realities. Some Jews wondered about the Proverbs because some of them seemed to contradict. This passage is an answer. The clash is intended! It all depends on the situation and the fool you are dealing with. Sometimes you are to answer them in a certain way. Sometimes you are to answer them in another. These two passages should teach us there is not one absolute way to answer a fool.

This is a consistent problem I see in Slone’s book which I want to bring up a little bit at this point. There is the sound of one-hand clapping. Slone brings up verses that he thinks support his position, and for the sake of argument they may, but he does not bring up passages that seem to disagree. I used Galatians 2 earlier as an example of this.

Slone later discusses Romans 12:17-19 and says “Rather in the context of Scripture we are to view this passage as commanding us to ultimately do what is right and honorable in the eyes of those who concur with Christ, for those who are in line with Christ and his teachings are ultimately those who are honorable in the first place, and who understand honor to begin with.”

I seriously question the last part of this, that is, the part about those who are in line with Christ understand honor. I daresay that most people I meet would not understand the role of honor in the ancient world. I am skeptical that Slone himself knows how important it was, for if he had, I suspect this book would have turned out a lot differently. If someone wants to understand honor, an excellent place to go is DeSilva’s “Honor, Patronage, Kinship, Purity.”

So in wrapping it up, while I appreciate Slone’s endeavors, I just think this falls short and the main reason is Slone presents one side of the story. What is to be done with Matthew 23? What about Luke 11? Now some might say Jesus could do that, but we can’t, but what about when Paul says we are to imitate him as he imitates Christ? What is the basis upon which we say that Christ can be confrontational in his approach to outsiders but we cannot be?

We could go and ask also about passages like Galatians 5 where Paul says he wishes the circumcision crowd would go the whole way and emasculate themselves. What about how Polycarp referred to Marcion as the first-born of satan? What about the heavy-handedness used by Irenaeus and Athanasius and Tertullian and in more recent times, the satiric wit of G.K. Chesterton? Has Slone considered a work such as Douglas Wilson’s “The Serrated Edge”?

I suspect Slone has bought into a modernistic approach and has unfortunately read it back into the Scripture. I do not think one can find this approach if one reads Scripture within its ancient social context, which is always the great danger we make. We read our own culture into the Bible.

So while I do appreciate Slone’s desire for evangelism, I think that these are problems in the text that I would have to see worked on before I could give my endorsement, especially the problem with the passage about entertainment purposes and such. I think Slone needs to interact with voices that disagree with and be able to explain passages that seem to go against his viewpoint. For the sake of argument, his position on the passages he cites could be correct, but without addressing the opposition, it is the sound of one-hand clapping.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

Deeper Waters Podcast 5/10/2014: Is Reality Secular?

What’s coming up on the Deeper Waters Podcast this Saturday? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

This Saturday, I’ll be interview on my show Mary Poplin. Who is this? Well I’ll let her own bio speak for her.

Dr. Mary Poplin is professor of education at Claremont Graduate University where she teaches courses on learning and pedagogical theories, philosophy and education, and qualitative research. She is a frequent speaker in academic and religious forums. She has been both founder and director of the current Master’s teacher education program and dean. Her most recent research is a five-year study of high-performing teachers in low-performing urban schools in some of the poorest neighborhoods in LA. Her book, Finding Calcutta, is about her experience volunteering with Mother Teresa and the Missionaries of Charity. Her more recent book, Is Reality Secular, is a reflection and analysis of four global worldviews, their principles, their similarities and differences with the Christian worldview and their consequences on lives, nations and cultures.

“Now there is great risk in sharing personal spiritual phenomenon but even greater risk comes from ignoring it.”

As a scholar and life-long educator, Dr. Poplin’s interest in issues of social justice has translated into a passion for improving education among the poor and, during the spring of 1996, it took her to Calcutta where her western, academically-minded background collided with one the most monumental lives of the twentieth century—a woman who was the founder and head of a multi-ethnic, multi-national service to the poor, but who Dr. Poplin admits, never made it into her class syllabus.

While the western, intellectual mind interprets Mother Teresa as an exemplary humanist it underestimates the spiritual framework from which she drew her work and her sense of purpose. Dr. Poplin’s story communicates how she saw one of the monumental lives of our time stand in unapologetic, countercultural contrast to the confines of the secular age.

Taking to heart what she learned from Mother Teresa that, “what you believe and what you disbelieve makes an enormous difference in the way in which you approach your work,” Dr. Poplin realized when God is missing in the university so is one gargantuan worldview.

PoplinOutdoorPicture

Poplin has a fascinating story of how she came to Christ while working at Claremont and that alone is worth the whole price of the book, but she is a thoroughly read individual who now has a deep passion for the Christianity that she was once against. She has the mind of a scholar with a heart of compassion for those who are in need and I am sure if you listen to the show, that you will be liking what it is that you are hearing.

So please join in this Saturday for a fascinating look at Mary Poplin’s book “Is Reality Secular?” It’s sure to become a great piece to use when discussing worldviews with your friends who come from a differing position. As always, if you want to call in from 3-5 PM EST when the show airs to ask a question, the number to do so is 714-242-5180.

The link can be found here.

In Christ,
Nick Peters