Tag: call

Book Plunge: Discerning the Voice of God Chapter 7

Does God’s voice bring peace? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

Shirer starts off this chapter talking about a couple that went into ministry. There were all kinds of warning signs and reasons why it wasn’t feasible, but they thought God was calling them and they had peace. Today, they have a successful ministry. Unfortunately, we are not told who this couple is, but are we to believe that because they had a successful ministry, it must be God told them to? It couldn’t be just that they worked hard and had a passion for Jesus that caused them to do great work.

Besides that, there are many unseen concerns with thinking like this.

For one thing, what about people who pray about matters, and have peace about them, but then those matters lead to a disaster? Unfortunately, we do not have exhaustive records from Christians on this. Shirer points to one example and considers the case settled.

Second, this is a form of thinking known as affirming the consequent. What if I told you this:

Mormon missionaries want you to pray to see if the Book of Mormon is true. If the Book of Mormon is true, you will get a burning in the bosom when you pray. You got a burning in the bosom when you prayed, therefore the Book of Mormon is true.

It doesn’t work that way, but then consider this in light of the above story Shirer gives.

If you have a feeling of peace about a ministry decision, then success in that ministry is a sure sign God has called you. You have success in that ministry showing God has called you. The form is really the same. You either accept both or you reject both. for my part, I reject both.

Not only that, but what about people who do not have successful ministries, at least at first, but years later do. Adoniram Judson spent years before he had his first convert in a foreign land. However, he did get the Bible translated into another language for the people and today, we look back and realize he had a successful ministry.

It is true that God called people like Paul and Moses and Isaiah and others, but you are not them. Moses did not show up in Egypt saying “I feel like God is leading me to rescue you Israelites.” Paul did not show up to meet Peter and say “I feel like God has called me to this work.” No. They had clear indicators that God wanted them to do something.

I can tell you I have heard a number of pastors who were sure they were called to preach and they were horrible preachers. They had a lot of passion, but no knowledge of the gospel. Also, that excitement would wear off and then burnout and then all of a sudden, they’re strangely no longer called.

Shirer goes on to say that:

When God speaks, you will feel a surety about His word to you and the benefits of being obedient to it. You’ll feel a peace about it. Think of it as getting a “green light.”

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 108). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

Scripture for this? None. Perhaps we could point out that Shirer quotes John 16:33 at the start of this.

“I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”

This is Jesus talking to His apostles, but He is not talking about personal decision making. He is talking about facing hardships in the world. He is giving them assurances for difficult times. Not only that, but He is saying this to THEM. It does not follow that it extends to everyone beyond them. Certainly Christ can be with us in our struggles, but we need to be careful in the Upper Room Discourse that we don’t take what Jesus says to the apostles and treat it like a personal message to us.

To help, Paul told them, “Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts to which indeed you were called into one body. …” The Greek word for “rule” is significant. It means to act as a judge or umpire. So Paul was telling the church that in the same way a modern day baseball umpire manages a game according to the rules, the Holy Spirit was to serve as the “umpire of their hearts,” and the Colossians were to make decisions in accordance with His calls.

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 109). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

But again, this is not about personal decision-making. As Ben Witherington says:

V. 15 says that the peace of Christ should not merely exist in the hearts of the Colossians, but should either rule there or preside as a judge in their midst. By this Paul does not advocate some sort of passivity or calm but the concept of shalom—well-being and wholeness. Nothing should be allowed to interfere with the well-being of the body of Christ. Peace must be the ruling principle. In an agonistic culture where rivalry and competition for honor was a part of everyday life, the audience must be reminded they are called to peace. These general ethical principles of faith, love, peace and the like are enunciated first and then are applied in the household code which followsin vv. 18ff.

Ben Witherington III, The Letters to Philemon, the Colossians, and the Ephesians : A Socio-Rhetorical Commentary on the Captivity Epistles (Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co., 2007), 180.

Even if decision-making is in mind, it is not individual decision-making. It is the church as a whole. If they can come together in peace on a matter, then they can go ahead in that matter.

I want to be certain that I am clear about this fact: as believers, we can never lose the God-given peace that accompanies our salvation. It’s ours eternally, perpetually. But in the ball game of daily life, the Spirit is making calls for us all the time that we can hear and sense in our own spirit. If we’re contemplating something that isn’t pleasing to God, His peace will not rule. If we’re heading down a path—in life, with the kids, in marriage, in business—and we’re wandering even by accident out of the path He’s set for us, His peace will not rule. If we’re moving forward prematurely and ahead of His timing, His peace will not rule. Even with ultimate peace in Christ concerning our relationship to Him as a son or a daughter, we won’t at that moment have peace in terms of this particular circumstance.

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 110). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

But again, no Scripture is given for this. Many of us have made decisions that we were quite anxious about at the time. Those decisions sometimes worked out fine. Sometimes they didn’t. Again, it’s easy to say peace is the answer if you only take the cases that fit your narrative. Shirer doesn’t interact with anyone who says otherwise. My fear is people can make disastrous decisions and do so based not on sound reasoning and Scripture, but how they feel which can be influenced by any number of factors.

I am remembering when I was eighteen, I had my wisdom teeth taken out. I remember it was a hard time in my life, but after I came out, I don’t know what they gave me, but I was in a peaceful high for a week or so. I tell people you could have told me a meteor was heading towards the Earth and we couldn’t stop it and we would all die and I would have just said “Oh. That’s nice.” Should I have trusted every decision I made in that time because I felt peace about it?

Looking at the next chapter, the claim is that God will challenge you. We’ll see how Shirer reconciles all of this, at least within her system. Thus far, she has failed at reconciling it with Scripture.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

Are We Really People of the Book?

Do we who are Protestants really go by the book? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

I was explaining to someone recently that my spiritual walk as an evangelical is very different from most of my fellow evangelicals. I don’t believe in ideas of feeling led or a call to preach as being normative. I don’t deny that God can do what He wants, but I always have to ask, “What does Scripture say?”

I see my fellow Protestants going on and on about how the Bible is central to our faith and practice. I agree with that. What confuses me is when it comes to this idea of how we live our day-to-day lives, it seems that our experiences rank above what Scripture says. If you want to know how someone knows that being called is a Biblical concept or how to know if a feeling is from God, they will point to experiences.

Now someone can ask “Well what about someone like Saul on the road to Damascus.” Sorry, but I don’t think many pastors who are in the pulpit have an experience of walking down a road, being knocked down and blinded by a light, and having the voice of God speak audibly. If anything, it’s quite arrogant to compare our experiences to Paul’s.

What do we have instead in Scripture? Let’s look at a passage like 1 Timothy 3. If anyone desires to be an overseer, he desires a good thing. In this case, it is talking about deacons in the church. The desire isn’t enough. Paul lists out the requirements. If you don’t meet them, you don’t get to be a deacon. In Titus, the same applies to elders. Paul lists the requirements for an elder and what an elder must be able to do.

Nowhere does he ask “Is the person called?”

What about something like giving to others? I remember being in a church where the pastor would regularly tell us to give as you feel led. Really? Go look at 2 Cor. 8-9. That is the longest passage we have in the New Testament about giving. Nothing is said in there about a feeling of being led. The only such similarity is that it is said that God loves a cheerful giver. Give and give joyfully. How much do you give? You use wisdom to determine that.

One of the great dangers of the normal way is that we can have any number of situations affecting our feelings at any one time. It could be that you’re hungry or that you overate. It could be that you’re sleepy. It could be you’re worried about something or you have a stomach bug or some other illness. It could be you just had a bad argument with your spouse or just spent the last hour stuck in a traffic jam.

So that system that can fluctuate on anything is also where we want to say God is telling us what to do? What on Earth happened to Scripture which is NOT like that? Are we truly people of the book?

And if we go this way, we will pay less attention to Scripture anyway. Not only that, we will give divine authorities to our inner impulses. I remember reading somewhere recently about someone talking about a program they did to service their community. It sounded like it went quite well, but what got me nervous was when they were talking about how God gave them such and such an idea.

Isn’t it presumptuous to say that God is the source of your idea? He might be, but do you want to just give divine authority to something like that? That one isn’t a Protestant thing. I’ve seen Catholics and Orthodox do the same thing.

I also think about how people talk about doing work and saying “I led so and so many people to Jesus” and then stopping and saying, “Well, no. God did it actually.” It sounds humble, but really, it isn’t. Consider 1 Cor. 9. Paul says he becomes all things to all people so that by all means possible “I might save some.” No one thinks Paul is thinking he’s the savior of these people, well aside from ignorant Muslims and atheists who I have seen making that argument. We all know Paul is saying he is the instrument. Yes. God is at work whenever someone comes to Christ, but is it honoring to deny that God used you? Be humbled by it. Accept it and admit the reality that you are a good speaker to these people to lead them to Christ and be thankful. The false humility says that the person and their willingness ultimately doesn’t matter.

God can use you and He can use your preparation and training. If someone asks me a question today about Christianity, they might think the answer only takes a minute or two. It doesn’t. It took several years. Those are just years of having the experience of studying and knowing how to answer.

Also, another aspect of all of this is how we are in our walks with God should not be dependent on our feelings, which again fluctuate. You can be miserable and close with God and right with God. Job was. You can be happy and be far from God and not right with him. Do I need to point out how many people this can apply to today?

So what would be the standard I’d use? Beyond just asking if you hold to a biblical faith, which even the demons believe many of our core doctrines, I could add in something the demons definitely can’t do. Growing in walking like Christ and trusting in God every day. Is your day-to-day living better than it was in the past? Are you having more victory over sin? Are you loving your neighbor well?

If you base any relationship in your life on your emotions, it will be doomed to fail at some point. If you’re married, you should know this. If you’re a parent, you should definitely know this. (How many mothers wake up with joy at 3 A.M. when they have to get up the next day because their baby is crying and needs something and won’t go back to sleep until he gets it?) Emotions come and go. Enjoy and learn from them, but don’t take them as divine. They are not.

Go back to the book.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

Should You Go To Seminary?

Should you embark on this journey? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

What I am posting today applies not just to seminary, but also to Bible College for those wanting an undergrad. This is a question I sometimes get asked in email as to if someone should go to school. I also have strong opinions on who should be allowed into a pulpit in a church and also what are some grounds that are insufficient to state if you should seek higher education in ministry. However, I want to focus on one really big bad reason.

I am sure this will shock many of you, but I do not really take seriously claims someone has that they are called to preach.

Now let’s also be clear that going to seminary doesn’t mean that you will be a pastor, as some can want to be professors, some missionaries, some counselors, some teachers, or any number of positions. The call to preach is the most common one I hear and usually seems like an obvious given. Everyone believes in a call to ministry. Right?

Well, no.

But look at people like Moses and Jeremiah and Paul!

Yes, and you are not them.

There seems to be some idea in Christianity in the West that our experiences should be just like the great heroes of the Bible. We see Moses go up on the mountain and speak to God face to face as a man speaks to his friend. That’s us! We’re not at all like any of the other Joe Israelites at the bottom of the mountain who didn’t get this privilege. Nope! We are the ones who are privileged.

It’s really an arrogant position.

Or we are like Paul and Barnabas. Why the Holy Spirit Himself personally spoke to the congregation and asked them to set apart these two for missionary work. That’s what he’s going to do to us! Never mind that when Paul went on his second journey there was no call. He just said he wanted to go see those cities again.

I have seen too many pastors that have said they are called to preach and they do not have a clue on how to preach or any real knowledge of Christian doctrine. They just have a lot of strong emotion. This is how you get people like Dan Barker. There is even a Clergy Project for ministers who have left the faith and become atheists or agnostics.

If all you have is a call, then seriously reconsider entering official ministry capacity. Ministry requires a lot of work and if you run just on your emotional leanings, you will run dry. If you approached marriage, parenthood, work, or anything else wanting to run on pure emotion alone, you will not make it.

Bible College and Seminary I think are a lot of fun indeed, but they are also very hard. Later this week I plan to blog about that and explain why, but it is not really an easy path. If you go this route, you could get burnt out in seminary alone, which could be a good thing. It could show that maybe you should try something else, and there’s no shame in that. God needs people in every field.

Now someone could say “Yes, there are a lot of people that say they are called to preach and turn out to not really be, but you’re basing your position on the wrong experiences instead of the true ones.”

I am basing it on first off, Scripture never gives any such requirement. Some people are called to ministry in Scripture, but it does not follow that everyone in ministry in Scripture or outside is called to ministry. When Paul finds Timothy, he finds Timothy is well-spoken of and wants to take him along. There is no indication that there was a divine call on the life of Silas. Paul listed requirements for elders and deacons and callings were never any of them.

Not only this, but we run the risk of being like Mormons with this. Consider how the Mormons have the burning of the bosom test. If you pray about the Book of Mormon and you receive the burning in the bosom, then the Book of Mormon is true! If you didn’t get it, well, you weren’t sincere in your prayer. All disconfirming experiences are ruled out as not true and all the ones that get the desired result are true. Hardly a real test.

Well, that’s a brief look at an insufficient call, but what are some real reasons to consider seminary? That’s for next time.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)