Tag: disagreement

Step Out Of Your Echo chamber

How many perspectives are you getting? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

“What are you reading?”

“A book by Herbert Marcuse.”

“What’s he doing now?”

“Not much since he’s been dead for several years, but I consider him one of the most wicked men of all.”

“Then why are you reading it?”

So someone asked me at my job recently. It’s a good question. I told them that it’s important to know what your enemy is doing. I told them this is one of the starting places for DEI and other such ideas. I have read many books I disagree with. Now, I also make it a point to always be going through at least one book that I disagree with.

I interact frequently with JWs on Facebook and they never seem to really interact with opposing arguments. I challenge them to read books they disagree with. No interest. I ask atheists if they will read something they disagree with. No interest. It’s become so common that I make it a point of saying these people are scared of contrary thought. It’s usually demonstrated when I just ask “What was the last book you read that you disagreed with?”

Why should you do this?

For one thing, it shows you’re taking a position seriously. If I go to a Muslim, it’s good for them to know I have read their material. I have read the Qur’an and the Hadiths of Al Bukhari. I have read all the Mormon Scriptures and a number of their other supplementary works. I still remember one time I asked a Muslim if he had ever read the New Testament and he said “No. Have you ever read the Qur’an?”

Conversation ended quickly when I said “Yes.”

Second, you can actually learn some things. I have learned things, and not just what I disagree with, from reading Bart Ehrman. Sometimes, an outside perspective can cause you to see things in a new light. You can miss what your blind spots don’t let you see, and we all have blind spots.

Third, hypothetically, they could be right. You could read about a position and wind up changing your mind on it. I remember someone read my co-authored book Defining Inerrancy and left a review saying they went in sure they would disagree with what we advocated, and they left agreeing with it. If your end goal is truth, what do you have to lose?

Fourth, you show respect for your intellectual opponent that way. If you come to me and I know that you know my position and not only that, understand it and can articulate it, then I am more likely to listen to you. If you go to me and you totally misrepresent my position, then I have no reason to listen to you on anything.

Now some of you might be firm Christians and aren’t interested in dialoguing with atheists and cultists and others. I think you should, but aside from that, you can still read something you disagree with. Pick a position you strongly hold in Christianity and read something that disagrees with it.

Strong Calvinist? Read an Arminian.

Strong Preterist? Read someone arguing for dispensationalism?

Cessationist? Read someone advocating for miracles today.

Old-Earth creationist? Read a young-Earth creationist.

Believe you can lose salvation? Read someone who holds to eternal security.

This also applies to political views. Strong liberal? Read a conservative. Strong conservative? Read a liberal. Hate Trump? Read a book by someone defending him. Can’t stand Democrats? Read a book by someone defending them.

Also, when you choose another book, try to read someone who looks like they know what they’re talking about. Pastor Bob’s reasons to believe God exists is quite likely not the best resource to go to if you’re an atheist. “Why God is Stupid” is probably not the best atheistic book title. (And no, as far as I know, those are not real books.) Try to take on something that will challenge you.

If you’re curious, since a student here asked me about Black Hebrew Israelites, I’m going through a book about them now by someone who advocates the position. This is the one I chose. It didn’t cost a lot on Kindle and it’s a little over 1,000 pages which told me the guy had to be really dedicated with it. Do I think it’s nonsense? Yes. Do I think he uses poor argumentation? Yes. Am I better informed still for going through it? Yes. If I meet someone who holds this position, I can say that I have read such  work and I could be seen in a more respectable manner also.

Step out of your echo chamber. You could learn something.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

Journey to Preterism — The Talk

What are the first steps in coming to Preterism? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

On my journey in eschatology, I had heard about Preterism before. The sad reality is, I did not know what it was. I thought I knew, but I didn’t know. I remained convinced that Preterists believed that everything had happened in the first century and that there was no resurrection and no return of Jesus. I’d see Christians I know who would have defenses of Preterism and I would just wonder about it. “Why would they do that?”

It’s not uncommon. I had someone leave a comment here recently asking if I knew any Preterists who held to the creedal statements of the church, especially on doctrines like the future resurrection of Christians and the bodily resurrection of Jesus. I replied with what I now know to be the truth. All orthodox Preterists hold to those doctrines. That doesn’t make us partial-futurists. That makes us Christians.

This is also why I don’t call myself a partial Preterist. The idea of so-called Full Preterism is that everything has happened and I consider that a heresy since it can lead logically to the denial of the bodily resurrection of Jesus. I think it has to even. It doesn’t work to change the rule and say Jesus is the exception. If we are raised like He was raised, then we are either both spiritual or both physical.

I am not a partial heretic. It’s my stance that so-called Full Preterism is denying the physical resurrection of Jesus at least implicitly and thus puts us in the area of heresy. That is also a term I do not use lightly. Not once in all of this have I referred to dispensationalists who I disagree with incredibly as heretics. They are my fellow Christians, all things being equal.

I am an orthodox Preterist instead, and what really led to me embracing that? It happened back in 2006, a year I can easily find out since I am wearing a t-shirt now for TheologyWeb convention 2006. TheologyWeb is a site I help moderate on and have my own section on.

You can come here if you want to join. You can find sections for debating every area of theology, other religions, atheism and agnosticism, politics and history, as well as areas just to have fun. There’s also a Deeper Waters section where you can interact with other people on the material that I write here. People of all faiths and no faiths are welcome. Also, after you’re done signing up, your breath will feel minty fresh.

Anyway, at this convention, I did something unusual really. I joined in a talk where I sat down with two people who hold to Orthodox Preterism that they were giving and I listened and asked questions. What they said that I can remember, I will try to explain in future posts, but I want to get to this part first off.

If you want to know about a position, one of the best ways to do so is to just talk to someone who is informed on the position and holds it and ask honest questions. It’s easy to think the worst of your intellectual opponents at times. Generally, there’s a rule that if you can make a position look absolutely ridiculous, you probably haven’t understood it.

Years ago, TheologyWeb had a section for remedial Christian teachings where I would answer questions. Now what if someone wanted to hear an answer from the dispensational position? This was an easy chance for me if I wanted to take it to come up with an answer to make dispensationalism look really stupid and thus get more people to Preterism.

Never took it. Instead, I would find a well-informed dispensationalist that while I disagreed with, I knew had studied the issue, and asked them to give the best answer from their position. I want people to have informed opinions.

This works politically too. I remember reading a story and I think it was about Matt Damon about how he went and interacted with several Trump voters somewhere. He walked away saying “Those people really aren’t the way that I thought they were.” Now that doesn’t mean he went and put on a MAGA hat, but he did at least understand their reasoning.

The sad reality for me is I could have cut off years of time in my search if I had just done this. I just always assumed I knew what was meant by Preterism and what a shock to find out that I didn’t. That is why I say when I entered that talk, I was doubtful, but when I left, I had enough questions answered and no remaining doubts strong enough to overcome the conclusion that the Preterist position had the best arguments.

So over the next few posts, we’ll be talking about those arguments. For this one, I just want to encourage you to really listen to someone about a viewpoint. Ask questions, but try not to be antagonistic. Consider this a fact-finding mission, like being a detective. Maybe you’ll change your mind. Even if you don’t, you’ll at least have a better idea of what you disagree with and a better idea of why the other person holds what they hold.

Give it a try.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)