Tag: Ecclesiastes 5:1

Book Plunge: Discerning the Voice of God Chapter 5

Is God a baritone or a tenor? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

Shirer begins this section with Scripture. Yay! Let’s see what she says!

Psalm 62:11-12

11 One thing God has spoken,
    two things I have heard:

Wait. That’s only one verse you quoted! Indeed, because that’s all that Shirer quotes. Now why would she do that? Let’s look at the rest of it and see if we can figure it out.

“Power belongs to you, God,
12     and with you, Lord, is unfailing love”;
and, “You reward everyone
    according to what they have done.”

If you look at the passage, this is not about God speaking to an individual person. It’s about the Psalmist trusting in what he has heard about God in his difficulty. This is the way Hebrews talk, but it looks like Shirer doesn’t care about that. Just look for where it says God has spoken and throw a personal idea on to it.

She says Revelation 3:20 can be applied as a call to salvation, but these are people who already trust in Jesus. Fair enough, but at the same time, she misses the point. She says it is about persistence, and it certainly is, but the persistence is apparently that God is trying to speak to you individualistically and you need to hear it.

Which is why this is in a letter read to churches from someone taking the role of a prophet. Got it.

Never think that the circumstances in your life have nothing to do with God’s will. They have everything to do with it! When you’re seeking His guidance, you should always reflect on the events the Lord is allowing to occur in your life. Persistent, internal inklings matched by external confirmation is often the way God directs believers into His will.

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (pp. 81-82). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

This piece of advice is backed by the Scripture of….

Oh wait. There’s nothing here.

Nope. Shirer thinks that every single bit of events in your life is arranged in a specific way because God is trying to give you a specific message. I am not denying that God works everything according to His will, but I am against trying to approach reality with a decoder ring.

Here’s my suggestion. Try to interpret Scripture as what God is telling you instead of your circumstances. For your circumstances, see how according to Romans 8, they can be used for your good if you love the Lord. They’re not about God trying to give you a message.

She then quotes Ecclesiastes 5:1 asking where this verse had been hiding all her life. I dealt with it before, but I will do so again.

Guard your steps when you go to the house of God. Go near to listen rather than to offer the sacrifice of fools, who do not know that they do wrong.

This is about going to a worship service or to offer a sacrifice and to be stingy with your words. Heed what your priest says. Speak too much and you can bring judgment on yourself. If this was about God speaking individually to you, why do you need to go to the House of God? Can’t He do that just as well anywhere else?

Even when you hear incorrectly, God knows your heart well, and He honors the person whose sincere desire is to know and do His will even in their imperfection. “If anyone’s will is to do God’s will, he will know whether the teaching is from God” (John 7:17 ESV).

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 88). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

So if you think you heard from God and you heard wrong, God knows you are trying to do right. Look! There’s a Scripture to back it!

Except this is Jesus talking about Himself and how people can know His teaching is from God and that He is from God.

How reliable can a teaching be if you have to mishandle Scripture so often to get to it?

So in the end, I still see nothing here. Next time, Shirer will tell us how God communicates impersonally. We’ll pick this up next week.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

Book Plunge: Discerning The Voice of God Chapter 1

Should we expect to hear the voice of God? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

My boss at the Post Office was surprised when I told her that hearing the voice of God is not a part of normative Christian living. It hasn’t been for centuries. It’s only been in more recent times that Christians have been convinced they are hearing the voice of God and that this is what everyone is supposed to do.

Someday, I would like to know where it started.

So when I’m browsing Kindle books and I see one about hearing the voice of God, I figure for the sake of argument, I’ll get it. It’s by Priscilla Shirer and it’s called Discerning The Voice of God. Who knows? Maybe it will give me something substantial on this.

Instead, I saw more and more how dangerous this idea is.

One of the big problems you find is that when you go through this book, you’ll find you learn a lot about the author. You won’t really learn a lot about God. She regularly says God was telling her XYZ and yet, we just have to take her word for it. But hey, having someone say they heard from God has never led to any problems before has it?

Did I mention I’m reading a book on Islam now and I’m reading something on Mormonism?

Now to be fair, Shirer would say that they disagree with Scripture, so they’re false, and I agree, but the point is they do claim to hear from God.

Early on, we are told by Shirer that God wants to tell her things, but she’s too busy talking to listen.

Remember all those times in the Bible when the people are speaking so much that they can’t hear the voice of God?

Neither do I.

At this point, she has a sidebar referencing Ezekiel 3:10. (At least it looks like a sidebar on Kindle.)

And he said to me, “Son of man, listen carefully and take to heart all the words I speak to you.

Let me just state something obvious.

You are not Ezekiel.

This is one of the problems with this kind of thinking. People who hold this always look and say “Look at Abraham or Moses or Habakkuk.” Yes. Those people heard from God. You’re not them. We always look and say “If I’m anyone in Scripture, I’m one of the great people.” No. You and I are far more likely to not be Moses but to be Joe Israelite wandering around the wilderness just trying to survive.

She says Isaiah 55:3 tells us to incline our ears to Him. Indeed, it does, but notice that of those ears, only one set of ears was hearing directly from God. Those were Isaiah’s.

She says to go to the house of God to listen is found in Ecclesiastes 5:1. Indeed, it is, but these were not individualists. These were people going to hear the word of God being given out by the priest. They were essentially going to church to hear a sermon. If God was always speaking anyway like Shirer thinks, why do you need to go to the house of God? If it’s a sermon, then it’s clear why you go to the house of God.

She says that it shows up fifteen times that if anyone has ears to hear the message, they must listen. Indeed! But that’s also given in Revelation and the message they are hearing is a letter that was written. It is not a personal message to them.

Seriously, with this bad of interpretation, I wouldn’t blame a reader if they stopped the book there. I would hope most would. I’m not such. I keep going to make sure and because I read bad books so you won’t have to.

The next reference is James 1:25:

But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.

Forgetting what they heard refers to the Law. It does not refer to a private revelation. Most people could not read so how will they know what the Scriptures say? Through hearing.

Later in the chapter, Shirer says she often feels led to get down and prostrate before God. Look. If you want to worship God that way, go ahead. I have no problem, but where on Earth does Scripture tell us that God leads us by our feelings? So many churches treat it like a staple and an obvious given. If we are people who claim to be Sola Scriptura, we’d better back what we say with Scripture.

Next she talks about how prayer used to be one way and she felt no closer to God at the end.

Let me stress this so much because so many people struggle with this.

Your relationship with God is not dependent on your feelings.

You can feel God is mad at you or feel He is pleased with you and all that means is that that is what you think at the time. There have been plenty of people who have had joy in doing what is wrong because of their feelings. There have been plenty of people who have suffered for doing something that is not wrong but they were convinced it was. All of it was based on feelings.

You can be feeling miserable and still be alright with God. Being a Christian does mean living on cloud nine all the time. Every single one of us will be sad at times. If the very Son of God could not avoid sadness on this Earth, I would be extremely arrogant to think I can.

Then she says Paul wrote about praying with his mind as well as with his spirit in 1 Cor. 14:15.

And?

That means that Paul was telling you to stop and listen to see what God says back?

Notice no one does that in Scripture. When Jesus gives us the Lord’s prayer, nowhere does He say “Now stop and hear what God says to you.” Paul wrote plenty on prayer. He never told us to listen to hear a voice from God in prayer.

She talks about Bible study and how perhaps God brings a Scripture to mind and is leading me there. It’s like God is a gamemaster dropping hints for you or something. Could it just be that you thought of that passage yourself because you know Scripture well? The danger with saying God led you to a passage is that you are starting to treat yourself as infallible. After all, if God did it, who are we as mere mortals to question that?

But it comes down to, did God do that, and if all you have is a strong feeling, that’s not enough.

She then quotes 1 Cor. 2:11 with saying the thoughts of God no one knows but the Spirit of God.

Again, I wonder “Why are you quoting this? How does this make your case?”

This quote shows up later:

First, it is “me and Him.” I come to prayer conscious of myself, my need, my desires. I pour these out to God. Second, prayer becomes “Him and me.” Gradually I become more conscious of the presence of God than of myself. Then it is only “Him.” God’s presence arrests me, captivates me, warms me, works on me. —Stephen Verney

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 33). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

I did some looking and I don’t know much about it, but he did write a book called Into the New Age. It will take some further looking to see if that is just a bad title or if he was in that movement to some extent. It wouldn’t surprise me because the above statement is honestly pantheism. I could be misunderstanding it to be fair, but I find it a highly concerning quote.

Edited to add: After writing this, I did speak to Marcia Montenegro who is my go-to person on the New Age movement and I am quoting her from our Facebook conversation with permission:

Actually, what you quoted from Shirer I’ve heard from others like John Mark Comer, I think, and maybe Tyler Staton, and other contemplatives. The Trappist monk Keating said you can’t think of God when you’re praying and the goal is that there is no subject-object distinction. I’ve been trying to warn about this stuff for over 20 years but hardly anyone paid attention. Now the contemplative stuff is all over the church. Shirer was influenced by Jan Johnson who likes Rohr. Johnson also is the president of the Dallas Willard Foundation. They are all on the same page which I consider to be a counterfeit of Christianity. So I would call it is more Contemplative than New Age because New Agers don’t really pray. Some Christians who are really into New Age beliefs might pray but prayer makes no sense in the New Age. So I would call this Contemplative. I’ll look up Verney.

I then asked that many Christians might think contemplative prayer sounds good. We are to pray and we should contemplate on our prayers. Right? So what’s the problem? She has several articles on the topic and recommended this as a start.

We now return to what I originally wrote.

The favorite passage is always “My sheep hear my voice” in John 10. Question. Who in the audience that day heard Jesus speaking?

Answer: Everyone.

So all of them were Christians?

No.

The voice is the call to salvation and it is not a literal voice. It is a hideous misuse of Scripture to take the call to salvation and turn it into personal guidance everyday.

That’s all we have for this chapter. We’ll see what happens in later chapters.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)