Tag: God speaking

Book Plunge: Discerning the Voice of God Chapter 4

How does God speak? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

I was pleased to see this short little part toward the start of this chapter from Shirer:

Often the Bible doesn’t tell us exactly how He chose to speak, only that “the Lord spoke,” and those who heard Him weren’t in any doubt about who was talking or what He was saying. Whether He spoke to reveal His character or to give specific direction, His voice was clear. Unmistakable. From the very beginning of time, and no matter what the method He chose, He has spoken in ways that could be plainly understood, revealing His deep desire to make sure that communication between Himself and His children was possible.

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 64). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

Yes. In the past, God spoke in these ways. People knew for the most part that it was Him speaking. We don’t know how, but it was clear and it was specific. Now, He has upgraded to…

Speaking through emotions, feelings, and an inner voice that is hard to discern from the voice of the devil or your own voice, but that’s how He’s chosen to speak…

Of course, we all know this is Scriptural. As Hebrews 1 says, in the past, God spoke to our fathers in various ways but in these last days, He has chosen to speak to us by the voice of the Holy Spirit…

Wait a second…

It says He has chosen to speak by His Son.

Maybe Shirer missed that part.

Instead, she says that after the Son departed, the Father has spoken by His Spirit and has attempted to reveal God to every saint who has been willing to listen. We can certainly agree that the Spirit is to be a fixture in our lives. We cannot agree on the idea that He has been trying to speak throughout history.

When the early church held their councils on the doctrine of Christ, we do not see anyone standing up and saying “God has told me that XYZ” and that that settles everything.

We do not see Augustine, Anselm, and Aquinas claiming divine revelation for the knowledge they shared with the church.

We do not see Martin Luther standing up and saying “God has told me that the RCC has it wrong!”

If Shirer wants to say this has been going on throughout church history, it would have been nice to, you know, quote church history.

Shirer later says:

But consider this. While we often wish we had what the people of God enjoyed in Old Testament days, I think they probably would have preferred what we have today—the special blessing of the Holy Spirit. They had no choice but to rely on prophets and visible signs since they did not experience the Holy Spirit as fully as we do in this age of the church. We possess a blessing they could only hope for—direct, personal contact with the living God. Even though His voice may sometimes be hard to discern without careful, deliberate discipline and self-denial, it’s a gift that ages past would have envied. That’s why we find the psalmist pleading, “Don’t take your Holy Spirit from me” (Psalm 51:11 NLT).

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 68). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

I do not doubt they would have wanted the Spirit that we have today, but not for the same reason. They would relish knowing that by that, they were part of the covenant people of God. They were certainly not thinking about individualistic questions. For instance, most of their marriages were arranged before they were even born. It’s also so fascinating that Shirer misses that in the past the message was clear, but today, it isn’t.

To top it off, this is not what is being talked about in Psalm 51. In Psalm 51, David has realized his sin with Bathsheba and is in repentance. He is not saying “Please don’t take away my source of guidance.” Nathan was the one who told him what God wanted him to do. He was saying “Do not take salvation from me.” It’s a shame that Shirer takes the giver of salvation and turns Him into personal guidance.

Shirer later tells a story about going to a new Bible study and the leader saying to her that he was just thinking so much about her and that God had given him this message. She told Shirer she believes God wants to do something new in her life. She needs to embrace it and then referenced Isaiah 43 with saying to forget the things of the past. Something new is coming.

Problems. First off, this is so generic it could apply to anyone and how do we know this guy didn’t say this to most every new person who came in? Who wouldn’t want to hear a message like this? The problem with generic messages is like reading your horoscope and taking it seriously. You can interpret anything as a fulfillment.

Second, this isn’t even what Isaiah 43 is about. Isaiah 43 is not about forgetting an individual’s hard past, as wise as that might be at times. (Not only that, but I think when the Bible speaks about forgetting and remembering, I think it is not about mental states but focus. To forget the past is to not dwell on it and to remember is to dwell on something again.) God is saying in Isaiah 43, remember all that stuff I did when I led you out of Egypt? You haven’t seen anything yet! Forget that stuff of the past! Don’t focus on that! I’m about to do something even greater!”

But for Shirer, who cares about context as long as it makes you feel better? The problem with this kind of material is that it really only serves to feed the ego. “Dear reader! Look at this story! God had a personal message for me!” One wonders what happens to all the people who are going through hard times and saying “Wonderful. Where’s my personal message?”

She also quotes Romans 8:14 saying all who are led by the Spirit are the sons of God. Paul is not saying “All who are guided in personal decision making are the sons of God.” The leading by the Spirit is righteous living in contrast to sinful living. Just look at the surrounding context.

12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

This is not about decision-making aside from the decision of living holy lives or not. This is about being children of God. This is about putting to death wicked desires. You don’t need a personal message from the Holy Spirit to know about that.

Next time, Shirer will start looking at how to recognize the voice of God. We’ll see if she has anything concrete.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

Why Can’t Protestants Be More Protestant?

Are we really people who take the Bible as our authority? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

Many times as a devout Protestant, I hear my fellow Protestants speaking in ways that trouble me. We often talk so much about what the Bible says to us and how it is our final authority in faith and practice. By the way, let’s make that clear, the Bible is not our only authority, but it is the one such that if anything contradicts Scripture, it is false, and any good Orthodox and Catholic would say the same thing. None of us want to believe anything that contradicts Scripture. Whether anyone does is another debate.

Yet when I get together with my fellow Protestants, I wonder about this. Often times, I hear talk about doing what you feel like God is leading you to do. It’s as if God is sitting up in Heaven trying to get your attention by giving you feelings in your heart. Question. Where in Scripture do you see anything like this described? Where do we see anyone being told to follow their feelings? If anything, we know too often that listening to your heart leads to trouble. As Jeremiah tells us, it’s deceptive above all.

Not only that, we would also need a guide as to which feelings are from God and which are not. I remember hearing Derwin Gray talking about talking to a Mormon once who said he knew God was speaking to him when he got goose bumps. Gray said, “If that’s the case, then when I’m watching Rocky 3, the Holy Spirit must be all over me.” It’s humorous, but you get the point. I also realize that we are not Mormons, but we do know Mormons are a fine example of what happens when you listen to strong feelings.

By the way, none of this means that I am opposed to feelings. It means that I am saying feelings must be guided by Scripture and if Scripture doesn’t tell us to listen to our emotions and feelings as cues from God, then we should not do so. Many people look at guilt as such a judgment from God. Guilt can always be a good reason to self-examine, but we all know people who feel guilty for things when they have done no wrong, and we know people who have done wrong and feel no guilt. It’s not reliable.

You may feel like God doesn’t love you. That can tell you that there’s an emotional problem to work out for you, but that says nothing about God. God’s love for you is not dependent on your feelings. If you think it is, then your feelings are greater than God. I have said before if we could ever for the briefest moment of time grasp how much God truly loves us, we would never live our lives the same way. Maybe the reason we don’t have that made fully manifest here is because honestly, in our sinful natures, we cannot handle that.

What would happen if we all took the promises of Scripture more seriously? I realize that my Catholic and Orthodox friends add tradition to the list of something else infallible, but I know they would agree wholeheartedly with this. If we took Scripture more seriously, all of us, we would all be better off. That book contains some pretty incredible promises for all of us. We spend so much time looking at ourselves often that we overlook what Scripture says about the matter.

Let’s consider one example. I am a sensitive guy in many ways when it comes to the fear that I have committed some sin. Of course, we all do, but I know this is one area I am very neurotic in. Now there is no doubt we need to reflect on the gravity of sin, but it would be absolutely awful to see the gravity of sin and then also to miss the greatness of the grace and forgiveness given to each of us. That could actually be a sin in itself. It has a God who would rather judge us than to forgive and love us. (And even if He doesn’t forgive us, He still loves us.)

Maybe you’re like me and your past isn’t filled with heinous sins. Sometimes, we can hear testimonies of people who came from a sordid past and they sound so glorious in a way because they know what they are forgiven for very well. If you don’t have that, it’s hard to experience it the same way. It might seem easy for Paul to write about seeing as he was guilty of murdering Christians, or Peter since He denied the Lord three times, but what about someone like the disciple whom Jesus loved? Are there not plenty of people who are seen as righteous regularly in the Bible and yet celebrate their salvation and thus their forgiveness. We have a hymn in the church about grace that is greater than all our sin. Why do we often act like sin is greater than grace?

After all, any one sin can separate you from God forever. God does not have to forgive you. He doesn’t even have to provide a way of forgiveness. He could have let us all just go to Hell and He would have been justified in doing so. He owed us nothing. That He gave us even an offer is a sign of His grace. If anything, it should tell us God is more serious about our need for forgiveness than we are.

Consider then if you’re a Christian whatever you have done, you have been spared of that. Regardless of if you hold to some form of eternal conscious torment or to annihilationism, you have been spared. Even if you hold to Universalism, you can say that God did not have to do that. We are the ones who have done wrong against God and rejected Him and spat in His face and yet He offers us forgiveness and even still wants to be with us despite the wrongs that we have done against Him, and keep in mind we are to show that love to others as well.

It is something I need to think about as well. I think for instance if an employer wants to do a background check on me, go ahead. They won’t find anything. That’s true. Before the law, I’m a quite clean individual. God help me though if I had to give an answer to Him for any background check. Every careless word and deed and even intention of my heart examined? Instead, forgiveness is given for all of that.

That’s a promise we all have.

Protestants. Our feelings will often lead us astray. We don’t have any guarantee that God is speaking through feelings, dreams, circumstances, etc., but we do know He has spoken in Jesus and in Scripture. Let’s always treat those as our final authorities. There’s a lot of awesome truths in there that we still need to think about.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)