Tag: hearing the voice of God

Concluding Thoughts On Priscilla Shirer

Should you read Shirer? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

No.

Well, tune in next time for….

Oh. You want to hear more. Right?

The problem with people like Shirer is they have a horrible way of misinterpreting Scripture, which everyone agrees comes from God, and then asks us to trust their judgment on subjective experiences, which we don’t know come from God. This causes a focus on one’s self and makes your own life the center of the story. That should never be. Jesus is always the center of the story.

Right now, I am reading God Doesn’t Whisper on this topic. Today, I read this great quote from Jim Osman, the author:

They write entire books teaching us how to discern the meaning of a whispered impression but they cannot discern the clear meaning of a written text! They think they can discern the meaning of God’s whispers in signs, impressions, and inner promptings, but they cannot accurately discern the plain meaning of the inspired Word. If they cannot rightly interpret a passage as objectively clear and straightforward as John 10, why should we trust them to teach us how to interpret our vague, subjective, and unclear impressions?

Osman, Jim . God Doesn’t Whisper (pp. 67-68). Kootenai Community Church Publishing. Kindle Edition.

There is a lot of danger in this movement. Think especially of Christians who are suffering. I have spoken to a man trying to save a marriage who told me that he doesn’t feel God’s presence now. This is not uncommon when people are suffering.

If you read people like Shirer, you will think the problem is you. If you are suffering, the last thing you need is to think that God does not care about you in your suffering. That can lead you to even more despair.

Christian suffering. God loves you. He cannot not love you. He cannot change in His love for you. He cannot lessen in His love for you and He cannot grow in His love for you. You have the Scripture and you have the Spirit. He has promised He is there with you.

It is hard to realize that at times when you are suffering and your emotions are out of control. The good news is that your emotions cannot tell you anything about God. Nothing. It does not mean your emotions are useless, but they are meant to tell you something about what’s going on with you.

Writers like Shirer will move your focus away from Scripture and lean them to yourself. It is an awful system that has you looking at every event in your life and every emotion to try to find out what secret message God is telling you. Friends. God has not kept secrets important for your life from you. They are there in the Scripture.  Go back to that.

Personally, when I hear anyone tell me God is leading them to do X or anything of that sort, I disregard it. They need to establish it on other grounds. Those of us who are Protestants remember that the movement has been to the sources, the Scripture.

Abandoning that for subjective feelings and events will only lead to chaos. We go with what has stood the test of time. We go with Scripture.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

Book Plunge: Discerning the Voice of God Chapter 14

What do we expect? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

It’s the final chapter!

This chapter is all about expectations. Towards the start, Shirer tells us to be expecting and she has a Scripture for this.

But when we truly expect, He incredibly delivers. I will stand on my guard post and station myself
on the rampart; and I will keep watch to see
what He will speak to me.
Habakkuk 2:1

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 199). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

But wait! There’s more!

Yep. Shirer left off the rest of the verse. Why would she do that? Maybe because the rest of it makes her look bad if she shows it.

I will stand on my guard post And station myself on the rampart; And I will keep watch to see what He will speak to me, And how I may reply when I am reproved.

That last part sure changes everything.

Habakkuk is a rare prophet in that most prophets spoke to the people on the behalf of God, but Habakkuk seems to spend more time speaking to God on behalf of the people. In these cases, he is actually complaining to God.

Either Shirer did not see that in the verse and is horrible at reading it.

Or she intentionally hid that part.

Unfortunately, she makes it worse:

Then into this revealing moment, with my heart and doubts and attitudes sufficiently exposed, God directed my Bible study into the slender opening of Scripture called the book of Habakkuk, where He used the descriptive message of this prophetic account to teach me an important lesson—a lesson I knew but didn’t really know until this occasion. With the promises of one simple yet profound verse, the Lord encouraged my pursuit of His word and affirmed His promise to give me counsel. For the vision is yet for the appointed time; it hastens toward the goal and it will not fail. Though it tarries, wait for it; for it will certainly come, it will not delay.
Habakkuk 2:3

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 200). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

See? Now it is not just Shirer exegeting the book. It is God doing it. Now God is telling her about what the passage means. This should be seen as a serious claim. If she says God is telling her this is what the passage means and she is wrong, by implication, God is wrong.

Do you not realize, Shirer, how seriously it is to claim God in this? If you are wrong, then you are wrong, but if you attribute it to God, then if you are not right, you have taken God’s name in vain.

Sadly, she has done just that.

God goes on to describe in verse 6-8 of this chapter what He is talking about:

“But soon their captives will taunt them.
They will mock them, saying,
‘What sorrow awaits you thieves!
Now you will get what you deserve!
You’ve become rich by extortion,
but how much longer can this go on?’
7 Suddenly, your debtors will take action.
They will turn on you and take all you have,
while you stand trembling and helpless.
8 Because you have plundered many nations,
now all the survivors will plunder you.
You committed murder throughout the countryside
and filled the towns with violence.

He is speaking about a specific prophecy that will take place at a specific time. He is not making a general comment about Shirer’s laugh. I keep coming back to thinking she must be someone incredibly egotistical to think all of this is about her.

First, new vision. Then, new confidence. The result: a second wind to wait with. I will stand on my guard post and station myself on the rampart; and I will keep watch to see what He will speak to me and how I may reply when I am reproved. (2:1)

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 206). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

So why didn’t she quote the rest of this earlier? She knew about it. Is she waiting to be reproved? Well, I’m not going to claim God has told me to do it, but this is my reproof of Shirer.

I have regularly dealt with atheists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, Muslims, and others that take Scripture out of context. I see much of the same in Shirer. I would not trust her at all with Scripture.

Tomorrow, I will give concluding thoughts overall.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

Book Plunge: Discerning the Voice of God Chapter 13

Are we being disobedient to the Lord? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

Shirer shows us the danger of her idea of hearing the voice of God early on. She does not think she is doing that, but she is. She talks about her friend Monica who seems to have things work out for her. What does Shirer say?

And while every account is unique, each one is woven together by a similar theme. A consistent thread. She and I have often talked about this—why some believers like her seem to experience God’s supernatural power more often than others, while many Christians can live their entire lives without really witnessing God’s handiwork. Her soft, humble answer is this: “I think the reason I see God’s activity so clearly in my life is because I’ve decided that the only appropriate response to Him is complete obedience. I am committed to obeying His leading, no matter how illogical His instructions may seem to be. From giving when I didn’t have enough, to making an effort when I was completely out of strength, I’ve just chosen to do what He says.” He speaks; she obeys.

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 182). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

Wonderful.

So are we to say that the person who loses a child to cancer is not living in complete obedience?

Are we to say Christians being martyred all over the world are not living in complete obedience?

Are we to say that a couple struggling with finances or infertility or anything else is not living in complete obedience?

It’s sad that Shirer has the exact same mindset as Job’s friends. See how well Monica’s life is turning out? She hears. She obeys. The implication is that if she disobeyed, her life would not turn out well. Shirer would likely never say that, but it is an easy conclusion to reach from her methodology.

Yet she goes on later on in the chapter to take this further.

God, who knows our hearts, doesn’t do much speaking into a person’s life who isn’t dedicated to obeying Him.

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 183). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

You don’t think you’re hearing the voice of God? Obviously then, you’re not obeying Him.

So if you’re crying out in pain and the heavens seem silent, you’re being disobedient.

I have had someone contact me before about marriage difficulties. Seeing as I have walked through divorce, I strive to help other men hopefully to save their marriages, but if not, then through divorce. This man told me about the heavens seeming silent. I told him he should not expect to hear the voice of God. We had some back-and-forth, but he did respect that I stuck by my guns.

Had I had Shirer’s mindset, I would have thought that my friend was being a disobedient Christian obviously. A guy who has a marriage falling apart does not need more guilt heaped upon him, but it is the outcome of what Shirer says. Not hearing from God? You’re the problem!

Not only that, the whole thing is just wrong. Paul was busy trying to destroy the church and God spoke to Him quite clearly. On the other hand, it was quite clear that God had spoken in the contest of Elijah at Mt. Carmel, and yet Jezebel still wanted to kill Elijah.

The Scripture makes clear, over and over again, that the prerequisite for experiencing God is obeying Him.

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 185). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

I dread the thought of anyone going through a hard time in this book thinking they need to feel the love of God and life seems cold and reading this. Shirer is not a wise writer. She is heaping stones on people who are already suffering. Not only that, but again, it’s wrong.

For one thing, not all experience of God is good. You can experience judgment and you certainly aren’t obeying God then. Moses had the experience of hearing God describe Himself as “I am” when all he was doing was just being a shepherd. Meanwhile, Joseph was obedient to God and wound up being thrown in prison for two years.

Now Shirer tells us again about, surprise once more, herself! She talks about a time her son had a horrible cough that was keeping her and her husband at night and at 4 AM, she woke up to it and was under the impression she should go and personally pray for her son. Okay. I do not have a problem with praying for your son, but notice what she says here.

For ten minutes or more I debated with God on the wisdom of this strategy.

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 185). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

Whoa.

You think you are talking with God and you are debating with Him?

How arrogant must you be!

We can say Moses and Jeremiah offered pushback, which I think could have been Semitic humility, but Shirer goes beyond that. She is debating. It is hard to not see this as her thinking she is more wise than the one who is Wisdom. Besides, I thought obedience was necessary to experiencing God and hearing His voice. Here she is arguing with Him and still hearing His voice apparently.

Now she does say that after the prayer, the cough went away, but again, was that God? Maybe. I don’t know, but I do know there is not a guarantee, or else St. Jude’s would have a whole lot less sick children today.

On the other hand, believers who always have an escape plan—another option waiting in the wings, a plan B to revert to—are what the Scriptures call “double-minded” (James 1:8). And they can never expect to fully know and experience the power and presence of God. They can never experience the full disclosure of divine activity that is available to those who are all in. They shouldn’t even anticipate that they will “receive anything from the Lord” (verse 7), not the least of which is His continued direction and guidance. So if you aren’t hearing from God very clearly or regularly, ask the Lord to reveal whether or not any double-mindedness is the culprit—any sense of holding back, any initial resistance that blocks your full acceptance and obedience of His message to you.

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 187). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

If Shirer was heaping stones on the reader before, now she is throwing them in the tomb and burying it. Sorry Shirer, but you should always have in mind what to do if a plan fails. Read Paul’s letters. In the end, he will often talk about what he wants to do, but he has other things in mind if they do not pan out.

Remember that story about how she argued for ten minutes with God about something? This is the same lady who in this same chapter says this:

We’ve talked before in this book about when it is appropriate to delay an upcoming action or decision until you’ve heard from the Lord. There’s much biblical wisdom and prudence in that perspective. But once you’ve heard from God, delay is no longer an option—only instant obedience is.

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 188). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

Ten minutes of arguing doesn’t sound like “instance obedience.” Maybe Shirer is an exception.

And yet on the very next page:

When the Lord gives me directives that I don’t particularly care for or I’m afraid to carry out, the last thing I want to do is get up “early in the morning” to do them. I procrastinate. I think about it. I pray about it. I talk to friends about it. And if I’m not doing any of those, I usually just try to ignore it.

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 189). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

This doesn’t sound like instance obedience.

And in one final example from this chapter, she writes about continuing a pursuit of higher education at Dallas Theological Seminary.

But while I was driving to the seminary to hand in my application, the Holy Spirit spoke clearly to my heart. “I didn’t tell you I wanted you to go back to school,” He seemed to be saying. “You came up with this idea all on your own. I have other plans for you.” Whoa. Wasn’t expecting that. I mean, here I was, on my way to campus, my crisp packet of materials resting in the seat beside me, and now I was being met with an about-face directive from God that was so strong, I had no doubt He was speaking to me. Caught in the moment, I thought about just going ahead and dropping off the application anyway. After all, I’d come this far and could always call back later and request that they disregard it. Once the stuff was turned in, I’d go home, talk it over with Jerry, and if we came to this same, unexpected conclusion—even at this late date in the process—I’d call and cancel it. No problem. But if, on the other hand, we determined that I was mistaken in what I thought God was saying about changing course, then finishing my errand would save me another trip out here and I wouldn’t miss any deadlines.

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (pp. 190-191). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

So let me get this straight.

You have no doubt that God is speaking to you, but you think you need to go home and discuss it with your husband and see if you two reach the same conclusion. How does this work?

“Honey. I am absolutely sure God was speaking to me.”

“What did He say?”

“He does not want me to continue higher education.”

“Okay. I think we should discuss this message you are absolutely sure is from God and see if we agree.”

“Yes. No need to rush on this. We should make sure God is right before we proceed.”

Oh. Not only that, it looks like she has a back-up plan in this as well.

Rules for thee, but not for me.

This chapter does not tell me a lot about God.

It tells me a lot about Priscilla Shirer and none of it is good.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

Book Plunge: Discerning the Voice of God Chapter 11

What does God sound like? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

Initially, I somehow hadn’t highlighted anything in this short chapter, so I decided to look through again.

The things I do for you people.

At the start, Shirer asks what it is that God’s voice sounds like. I don’t know why this is a hard question. If you think you are hearing from someone regularly, how can you not know what their voice sounds like? Then again, in this crazy system, Shirer has it that the voice could be the voice of the devil or your own voice.

Kind of sad when you don’t know where the source of that voice is or how to recognize it. Especially considering how different the first two should sound.

Shirer talks about why God speaks and one reason she says is God wants to have friendship with His people. I wish she would say what exactly this means. After all, do we mean to say that God was lonely and just wanted someone to hang out with? If so, that’s pathetically weak. After all, am I to think that the company of the Trinity is insufficient for the Godhead? Can I supposedly meet some lack that God cannot meet in Himself?

Historically, Christians have held there is no real relation, in the sense that God produces a change in me and I produce a change in God. I cannot change God. My honoring, worshipping, and loving Him does not change Him one iota. I cannot benefit Him in any way. I can be of service to the Gospel, but I cannot improve God at all nor can I worsen Him.

This does not mean that He loves me. If anything, this means His love is the least selfish of all as He gets no benefit from it. All of our loves we have on Earth to some extent will be beneficial to us, and that’s not wrong. God is the only one who breaks that rule.

This means that anything we hear from God will be designed to glorify Him and reveal His very nature to us. Absolutely nothing we hear from God through the Holy Spirit will contradict His nature or His Word or seek to detract from our intimacy with Him. His personal word to us will inevitably reveal who He is.

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 158). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

And once again I come to my refrain. I know Scripture comes from Him. I know that is trustworthy. I do not have any reason to think that what Shirer presents is. Since this is the case, why should I focus on the uncertain and unfounded claims when the certain and reliable ones are right there?

Shirer says God speaks so we can experience Him and know Him. Am I to think that Scripture isn’t sufficient? Remember, Peter had a great experience on the Mount of Transfiguration, but then said “But we have the word of prophecy made more sure.” Shirer would likely have the reverse. She could say “I have what Scripture says, but then I got the transfiguration so I could experience Him.”

Maybe it’s just me, but I think I’ll side with Peter.

She then talks about a lady she knows going through a divorce and says she’s the innocent party and says God is leading her to pray  for her husband and that he’ll come back home.

Well, as one who has gone through divorce, this really hits hard, and yet I have this idea. You really need a personal revelation from God to know to pray for your husband who has wronged you? We are already told to pray for those who hurt us. I still pray for my ex-wife and for her blessing and it’s not because of a personal revelation, but because I find that’s biblical. It also helps me to release any anger I have towards her. It’s hard to be angry with someone when you’re praying for them.

Shirer says she doesn’t know how this will work out. It may work out in her friend’s favor or it may not. Now were it me, I would tell her friend to get a good lawyer anyway and get herself involved in DivorceCare. I have no problem with her praying for her husband in this time. I commend that. I think she should be taking steps of preparation just in case, and you don’t need a divine word to know that. You need wisdom, something we’re told to have anyway.

But that could lead to a question in an unknown situation. Do we have a plan to follow? (By the way, was her friend “led” to marry a man who would treat her in a way that would end in divorce?) Let’s discuss that next time.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

Book Plunge: Discerning the Voice of God Chapter 9

Does God speak truth? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

Oh, Priscilla Shirer. If only you focused so much on what you said at the start of this chapter. If only you would make that your focus. What you say is true and yet at the same time is tragic.

He speaks principally through His Word. And His Word is always true.

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 127). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

This is absolutely true. I even agree with the principally part. Obviously, the best revelation of God ever was in the incarnation, but we don’t have access to that directly. We only know that through the New Testament writings. There is also general revelation that speaks to us of God, but the best place to go is still Scripture.

My ex-wife used to wonder about a dream she had. She would wake up from a strange dream and wonder what she was to learn from it from God. I told her the same thing always. “If only you spent as much time interpreting Scripture which you know is from God as you do dreams which you don’t know are from God.”

Now I am not at all saying God cannot speak through dreams. I am thankful that this is happening in the Muslim community and usually, those are quite clearly divine dreams. I am saying that it is not normative for us and unless we have strong knowledge somehow that a dream came from God, it is best to not fixate on it. I have no problem with seeing if we can learn something about ourselves, but it could just be that we had that dream because we ate too much pizza the night before.

The problem here is that Shirer tells us that God speaks principally through His word, but then has a whole book here dedicated to understanding messages that we have no way of knowing if they are from God and which I generally doubt are. She is taking her audience away from the sure thing and focusing on the possibly thing. It is a great neglect on her part. I do realize she has written other books going through Scripture, but she should stick to just Scripture.

She tells the story of a man who wanted to leave his wife who claimed to be a Christian and without knowing the details, we are going to give the benefit of the doubt to Shirer that the grounds were unbiblical. I am even quite sure she is right on the grounds. Scripture is clear on the grounds for divorce. She has to argue against him when he says he is positive God has given him an okay for this and he really feels led to do this.

Miss Shirer, isn’t that what you have laid the groundwork for? I am not at all saying you would advocate for this, but this is the kind of thinking that your approach leads to. You can say all you want that Scripture forbids this, but for all you know, this man can just say “God has shown me I am an exception.” Maybe he will compare himself to Hosea?

For me, I would just say “I don’t care what you think God said to you and I don’t care about how you feel about it. I just care about what the Bible says.”

There really isn’t much else worth commenting on in this chapter, but overall, it’s a tragedy. The chapter on truth should be all that needs to be shown to show how far Shirer has stumbled from it. We are all better off if we stick to what we know is from God.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

Book Plunge: Discerning the Voice of God Chapter 8

Will God’s voice challenge you? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

Early on in this chapter, Shirer presents a list of challenges people were given when God spoke to them. One mention is notable and that is that Esther was asked to plead her case before the king.

Really?

Esther is actually my favorite book of the Bible. It reads like an adventure novel which made it so exciting for me the first time I got to it. It’s also a book where you see God behind the scenes. God nowhere shows up explicitly in the narrative. This might sound pedantic, but if Shirer is not even getting basic facts about Scripture right, how can I trust her interpretation on more complex matters?

Shirer then goes on to say that one of the ways she’s learned how to tell God is speaking to her is when she does something that is a challenge to her pushing her beyond her boundaries. Unfortunately, there is no Scripture for this. We are just to trust what the nature of God is like based on Shirer’s personal experience.

Yet she goes on to say this:

I’ve learned, however, not to tell anyone else ahead of time what I’m planning to talk about, because more than once the Lord has decided to change things up on me. Hours before, sometimes minutes before I’m ready to take the platform, He will impress on me the need to address an entirely different topic. Based on what He’s been doing at the event, He leads me in another direction than the one I’d been planning to go.

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 120). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

She follows this up with saying that that’s scary. She is right, but not for the reasons she thinks she is. It is scary because first off, this means you can’t trust Shirer to speak at your event because you could hire her to speak on X and she will speak on Y instead. Second, what she is saying is that whatever she is speaking on, God has told her to speak on it, and hey, who are we mere mortals to judge?

Oh. She also describes this as “Winging it.”

For some reason, I can’t imagine Moses getting up before Pharaoh and “winging it.”

Then, she goes further and kicks it up a notch and says explicitly so if you think I have misinterpreted her, think again.

But I can testify to you from firsthand experience that every time I’ve responded to that Holy Spirit inclination, every time I’ve thrown myself headlong into His power and anointing, it hasn’t been comfortable, but the words have come. Maybe not as fluently or articulately as I would have preferred, but they’ve come. And instead of just being my well-planned words, they were His words, flowing strongly and supernaturally through a person who could not have done that on her own. God gives me the courage. God gives me the power. And I kick at another little piece of that cocoon until, wouldn’t you know it, I’m flying on the wings of His supernatural strength. (emphasis mine)

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 120). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

You hear that? Shirer is speaking God’s very words to you? Now in Old Testament times, she would have been putting her very life on the line. In modern times, a lot of Christians will read that and not consider the seriousness of what is being said and encourage other Christians to read Shirer.

We do not live in a culture that takes God seriously if we can speak so flippantly about Him.

So what about the question from the last blog?

Interesting, isn’t it, that the teaching of this chapter comes on the heels of our talking about God’s voice being characterized by “peace.” So which is it? When I’m trying to hear God speak, do I expect a sense of His peace, or do I wait for Him to scare the living daylights out of me?

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 122). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

So how? Unfortunately, I read the section and I’m still not sure how Shirer reconciles these. She tells us the way of God will work, but it will also not be the easy way. Could it be, and this is just me thinking out loud, that we have a hard time saying what Scripture says on the matter because this is a matter that is foreign to Scripture?

Christians. Avoid people who speak about God flippantly. Do not take people lightly who take the idea of God telling them something lightly.

Next time, we’ll talk about what it means for God’s Word to exude truth.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

Book Plunge: Discerning the Voice of God Chapter 7

Does God’s voice bring peace? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

Shirer starts off this chapter talking about a couple that went into ministry. There were all kinds of warning signs and reasons why it wasn’t feasible, but they thought God was calling them and they had peace. Today, they have a successful ministry. Unfortunately, we are not told who this couple is, but are we to believe that because they had a successful ministry, it must be God told them to? It couldn’t be just that they worked hard and had a passion for Jesus that caused them to do great work.

Besides that, there are many unseen concerns with thinking like this.

For one thing, what about people who pray about matters, and have peace about them, but then those matters lead to a disaster? Unfortunately, we do not have exhaustive records from Christians on this. Shirer points to one example and considers the case settled.

Second, this is a form of thinking known as affirming the consequent. What if I told you this:

Mormon missionaries want you to pray to see if the Book of Mormon is true. If the Book of Mormon is true, you will get a burning in the bosom when you pray. You got a burning in the bosom when you prayed, therefore the Book of Mormon is true.

It doesn’t work that way, but then consider this in light of the above story Shirer gives.

If you have a feeling of peace about a ministry decision, then success in that ministry is a sure sign God has called you. You have success in that ministry showing God has called you. The form is really the same. You either accept both or you reject both. for my part, I reject both.

Not only that, but what about people who do not have successful ministries, at least at first, but years later do. Adoniram Judson spent years before he had his first convert in a foreign land. However, he did get the Bible translated into another language for the people and today, we look back and realize he had a successful ministry.

It is true that God called people like Paul and Moses and Isaiah and others, but you are not them. Moses did not show up in Egypt saying “I feel like God is leading me to rescue you Israelites.” Paul did not show up to meet Peter and say “I feel like God has called me to this work.” No. They had clear indicators that God wanted them to do something.

I can tell you I have heard a number of pastors who were sure they were called to preach and they were horrible preachers. They had a lot of passion, but no knowledge of the gospel. Also, that excitement would wear off and then burnout and then all of a sudden, they’re strangely no longer called.

Shirer goes on to say that:

When God speaks, you will feel a surety about His word to you and the benefits of being obedient to it. You’ll feel a peace about it. Think of it as getting a “green light.”

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 108). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

Scripture for this? None. Perhaps we could point out that Shirer quotes John 16:33 at the start of this.

“I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”

This is Jesus talking to His apostles, but He is not talking about personal decision making. He is talking about facing hardships in the world. He is giving them assurances for difficult times. Not only that, but He is saying this to THEM. It does not follow that it extends to everyone beyond them. Certainly Christ can be with us in our struggles, but we need to be careful in the Upper Room Discourse that we don’t take what Jesus says to the apostles and treat it like a personal message to us.

To help, Paul told them, “Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts to which indeed you were called into one body. …” The Greek word for “rule” is significant. It means to act as a judge or umpire. So Paul was telling the church that in the same way a modern day baseball umpire manages a game according to the rules, the Holy Spirit was to serve as the “umpire of their hearts,” and the Colossians were to make decisions in accordance with His calls.

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 109). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

But again, this is not about personal decision-making. As Ben Witherington says:

V. 15 says that the peace of Christ should not merely exist in the hearts of the Colossians, but should either rule there or preside as a judge in their midst. By this Paul does not advocate some sort of passivity or calm but the concept of shalom—well-being and wholeness. Nothing should be allowed to interfere with the well-being of the body of Christ. Peace must be the ruling principle. In an agonistic culture where rivalry and competition for honor was a part of everyday life, the audience must be reminded they are called to peace. These general ethical principles of faith, love, peace and the like are enunciated first and then are applied in the household code which followsin vv. 18ff.

Ben Witherington III, The Letters to Philemon, the Colossians, and the Ephesians : A Socio-Rhetorical Commentary on the Captivity Epistles (Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co., 2007), 180.

Even if decision-making is in mind, it is not individual decision-making. It is the church as a whole. If they can come together in peace on a matter, then they can go ahead in that matter.

I want to be certain that I am clear about this fact: as believers, we can never lose the God-given peace that accompanies our salvation. It’s ours eternally, perpetually. But in the ball game of daily life, the Spirit is making calls for us all the time that we can hear and sense in our own spirit. If we’re contemplating something that isn’t pleasing to God, His peace will not rule. If we’re heading down a path—in life, with the kids, in marriage, in business—and we’re wandering even by accident out of the path He’s set for us, His peace will not rule. If we’re moving forward prematurely and ahead of His timing, His peace will not rule. Even with ultimate peace in Christ concerning our relationship to Him as a son or a daughter, we won’t at that moment have peace in terms of this particular circumstance.

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 110). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

But again, no Scripture is given for this. Many of us have made decisions that we were quite anxious about at the time. Those decisions sometimes worked out fine. Sometimes they didn’t. Again, it’s easy to say peace is the answer if you only take the cases that fit your narrative. Shirer doesn’t interact with anyone who says otherwise. My fear is people can make disastrous decisions and do so based not on sound reasoning and Scripture, but how they feel which can be influenced by any number of factors.

I am remembering when I was eighteen, I had my wisdom teeth taken out. I remember it was a hard time in my life, but after I came out, I don’t know what they gave me, but I was in a peaceful high for a week or so. I tell people you could have told me a meteor was heading towards the Earth and we couldn’t stop it and we would all die and I would have just said “Oh. That’s nice.” Should I have trusted every decision I made in that time because I felt peace about it?

Looking at the next chapter, the claim is that God will challenge you. We’ll see how Shirer reconciles all of this, at least within her system. Thus far, she has failed at reconciling it with Scripture.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

Book Plunge: Discerning the Voice of God Chapter 5

Is God a baritone or a tenor? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

Shirer begins this section with Scripture. Yay! Let’s see what she says!

Psalm 62:11-12

11 One thing God has spoken,
    two things I have heard:

Wait. That’s only one verse you quoted! Indeed, because that’s all that Shirer quotes. Now why would she do that? Let’s look at the rest of it and see if we can figure it out.

“Power belongs to you, God,
12     and with you, Lord, is unfailing love”;
and, “You reward everyone
    according to what they have done.”

If you look at the passage, this is not about God speaking to an individual person. It’s about the Psalmist trusting in what he has heard about God in his difficulty. This is the way Hebrews talk, but it looks like Shirer doesn’t care about that. Just look for where it says God has spoken and throw a personal idea on to it.

She says Revelation 3:20 can be applied as a call to salvation, but these are people who already trust in Jesus. Fair enough, but at the same time, she misses the point. She says it is about persistence, and it certainly is, but the persistence is apparently that God is trying to speak to you individualistically and you need to hear it.

Which is why this is in a letter read to churches from someone taking the role of a prophet. Got it.

Never think that the circumstances in your life have nothing to do with God’s will. They have everything to do with it! When you’re seeking His guidance, you should always reflect on the events the Lord is allowing to occur in your life. Persistent, internal inklings matched by external confirmation is often the way God directs believers into His will.

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (pp. 81-82). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

This piece of advice is backed by the Scripture of….

Oh wait. There’s nothing here.

Nope. Shirer thinks that every single bit of events in your life is arranged in a specific way because God is trying to give you a specific message. I am not denying that God works everything according to His will, but I am against trying to approach reality with a decoder ring.

Here’s my suggestion. Try to interpret Scripture as what God is telling you instead of your circumstances. For your circumstances, see how according to Romans 8, they can be used for your good if you love the Lord. They’re not about God trying to give you a message.

She then quotes Ecclesiastes 5:1 asking where this verse had been hiding all her life. I dealt with it before, but I will do so again.

Guard your steps when you go to the house of God. Go near to listen rather than to offer the sacrifice of fools, who do not know that they do wrong.

This is about going to a worship service or to offer a sacrifice and to be stingy with your words. Heed what your priest says. Speak too much and you can bring judgment on yourself. If this was about God speaking individually to you, why do you need to go to the House of God? Can’t He do that just as well anywhere else?

Even when you hear incorrectly, God knows your heart well, and He honors the person whose sincere desire is to know and do His will even in their imperfection. “If anyone’s will is to do God’s will, he will know whether the teaching is from God” (John 7:17 ESV).

Shirer, Priscilla. Discerning the Voice of God: How to Recognize When He Speaks (p. 88). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

So if you think you heard from God and you heard wrong, God knows you are trying to do right. Look! There’s a Scripture to back it!

Except this is Jesus talking about Himself and how people can know His teaching is from God and that He is from God.

How reliable can a teaching be if you have to mishandle Scripture so often to get to it?

So in the end, I still see nothing here. Next time, Shirer will tell us how God communicates impersonally. We’ll pick this up next week.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

You’re Not Moses, But Israel

Who do we most resemble in the Biblical text? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

For those wondering where I have been, last week I had a massive toothache. The antibiotic is starting to work now, but I wanted to take a break. Things should be back to normal entirely relatively soon, although future work is going to be needed.

I have a habit in Bible reading. I read in the morning, but before I go to bed at night, I read a short little bit. Normally, just a couple of verses. I think about those and examine them and keep in mind the best I can the verses I read earlier and see how it all fits. A couple of nights or so ago I was going through Hebrews and read this in Hebrews 3:15-16.

15 Remember what it says:

“Today when you hear his voice,
    don’t harden your hearts
    as Israel did when they rebelled.”

16 And who was it who rebelled against God, even though they heard his voice? Wasn’t it the people Moses led out of Egypt?

So who was Israel? Israel was a nation that had gone down to Egypt and originally been treated with favor. Now they were not. They were enslaved by a Pharaoh who did not care about the history of these people. They were people of a strange religion in a strange land. They were people in covenant with YHWH.

They were like us in many ways. We are the covenant people of YHWH as well since we are in Christ. We have a strange belief system to the people around us.

These people cry out to God for deliverance. They’re really asking Him if He’s going to honor the covenant. This is something common you see in the Old Testament. Many of the Psalms are not talking about reminding the people of their covenant, but God of His.

Then these people are delivered by Moses and what do they do after all the miraculous signs they themselves personally saw? They rebel. When they get to the Promised Land, they declare that God is against them and refuse to obey them. God tells Moses those people will never enter His rest and the people wander for 40 years until that generation dies off and a new one comes up.

Today in the church, it’s quite common to see ourselves in the same position as the heroes of the Bible. Now to be sure, we are to emulate them when they do right and live like them, but they are also exceptions. Many people expect to hear God speak to them because Moses did. They forget the numerous Israelites at the base of the mountain who realized how frightening a prospect that was. Hebrews even reminds us that Moses was trembling with fear at the presence of God.

In reality, we are not like Moses most often. We are more like Israel. We are often the people in rebellion against God and who do not think He will do what He said and that we have to handle things our own way. Every time we do that, we are in essence doing what Israel did. We are hardening our hearts.

It’s nothing we really want to hear. I certainly didn’t want to come to such a conclusion that would implicate myself as well, but I don’t see much other way around it. We can say it’s worse for us as well. We have the promise of the resurrection. Many of us could have a more sophisticated theology than the average Israelite in the wilderness back then. Those of us especially who are apologists are to be held to a higher standard since we specialize so much in the truth of what God says. We had better live it!

So why don’t we trust God more? That is something I am still pondering on more and more. Each of us will have to answer that on our own. We can keep in mind even Moses didn’t do all the trust right so if we struggle, we’re in good company.

We should also be more humble when we read the Bible. All the good promises are there, but they’re not there because we’re so special and earned them, but because God is so gracious and gave them. Many of us would like to be the heroes, and there’s nothing wrong again with wanting to emulate them, but too many times we’re like the failures and even the enemies in the Bible. Let’s all watch ourselves to make sure we’re living more and more like Christ.

In Christ,
Nick Peters

On Pop Christianity

Is there a danger in how we portray Christianity? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

Yesterday, I was browsing Facebook and saw a post from someone on how they were angry with God because they listened to Him and that led them to having their lives in chaos. They mentioned things like what God had been telling them, leading them to do, following parents and using courtship for dating, etc. All of this sounds like what we have in much of modern Christianity, and all of it leads to ideas like this. Many times, it fails to deliver. Whether this person will become an internet atheist or not, I don’t know, but I wouldn’t be surprised it starts there for many since I see many atheists online critiquing this kind of Christianity.

Good.

This kind needs to be because as far as I’m concerned, it’s completely foreign to the Bible. Many of us think that it isn’t. We think we’re supposed to be able to hear the voice of God. We think that there is a personal plan for each of our lives and we have to find that plan. We look at modern prophecies and dreams and take them more seriously than Scripture.

We take it so seriously that really, why should we even consider Scripture anymore? If you were hearing the voice of God on a regular basis, wouldn’t He just tell you what you need to know? This is also along the lines of people saying that Christianity is about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. It’s terminology I also don’t use. It’s not found in Scripture and the relationship one has with Christ is not like the relationship one has with anyone else and if you make it that way, you won’t raise up the other relationships, you’ll lower the position of Christ.

What we have produced with this mindset is a culture of Christians that are examining every feeling they have to see which one is from God and which one isn’t. How do they know? That’s a good question. Interestingly enough, it seems like the ones that are from God always match with what it is that the person already wants to do. It’s not a shock that many if they don’t get disappointed with things going wrong and become atheists, instead wind up with divine authority given to everything and they become New Agers.

A number of you, like me, are Protestants, which means this is even more ironic. We often say we don’t trust the Pope speaking ex cathedra, but we think we are the Popes in our own lives. We can truly recognize the voice of God. We can thus speak with divine authority.

Keep in mind that in all of this, I’m not saying this can’t happen. I’m not saying God is incapable of speaking today. He’s God. If He wants to, He can. What I am contending is that this is not meant to be normative in our lives today.

“It’s not?! Well, what about Moses and Joshua and Peter and Paul and all these others?”

Yeah. Let me point out a simple fact.

You’re
Not
Them.

It’s part of our modern arrogance that we all think that the life of Moses is meant to be our life. It’s not. You’re much more likely to have your life be like the life of Joe Israelite wandering through the wilderness. It doesn’t mean you can’t learn from Moses’s life. You should. It means that Moses’s life is not your life. Moses was exceptional in his time. He is still exceptional today.

You also aren’t Paul. You are to imitate Paul, sure, but your life won’t be like his. If you think it will, then go touch your handkerchiefs and deliver them to sick children in the hospitals so they can be healed. Perhaps even more, if you think you are supposed to live like Paul, then go out and do the missionary work in hostile territory until your list of sufferings can compare to his in 2 Cor. 11.

Of course, when we say our lives are to be like theirs, we often mean in all that good stuff we like. We don’t mean in the suffering. That would be a bit too inconvenient.

So what is God’s will for your life then? That is a surprisingly easy question to answer. God’s will is in Romans 8. It’s to conform you to the likeness of Christ. That’s it.

But who am I supposed to marry? What am I supposed to do with college? What am I here to do?

You have great freedom in those decisions. Consider marriage. A more important question to start with is “Should I marry?” That depends on your desires. If you’re like many of us and would be inwardly burning without marriage, then you should marry. Yes. The desire to have sex is one of the reasons to marry. We look at that as shameful in the church today, but it’s just what Paul said in 1 Cor. 7.

From there, you have some criteria. The person must be a Christian and they must be of the opposite sex. It should be someone it is possible for you to marry. They must be single as well. From there, you have great freedom.

And after you marry, what is God concerned about? It is not about what kind of person you married at that point. It is what kind of spouse are you going to be. It’s easy to think about what your spouse should do for you. It’s harder to think about what you should do for them. After all, that requires change and risk on your part.

What about college and career paths? What do you want to do? What can you do? What do you have the ability to do? Is what you want to do moral? If so, go for it. It doesn’t also have to be ministry. You can do ministry without having an explicit career in ministry. I also see no reason to think that if you really like architecture and want to be an architect, that you can pursue that path and get before God one day and He’ll say, “You sinned in your life! I wanted you to be a dentist!”

At this point then, it’s not about what kind of field you go into. It’s about what kind of worker are you. How will you serve? The advice to slaves applies to us. Serve your masters as if you were serving Christ. Naturally, you don’t do anything immoral, but you do try to be the best that you can.

If someone comes to you with the “God told me” message about you, be very suspicious. Of course, it can be a real message. There are times true messages like this have been given, but unless someone says something explicitly that they could know no other way, be cautious about it. Go back to Scripture. It’s the source you can trust.

Doing so will also help you to take yourself a little bit less seriously. Not everything that happens in your life is a personal divine message about you. Sometimes, things just happen. The universe does not revolve around you. The focus of your life is what you’re doing for Jesus. It is not so much what God is doing in your life. It is what you are doing in His.

In Christ,
Nick Peters