Tag: KJV

Spiritual Deception in the Highest 10.1

What about the Dark Ages? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

Jeff Johnson keeps getting more and more ridiculous. Today, we’re going to be talking about the Dark Ages. Never mind that this is a name that comes from much more secular thinkers and is supposed to be in contrast to the enlightenment, Johnson goes with it. The source material can be found here.

Beginning around 476 A.D., the world entered ‘The Dark Ages’. This lasted almost 1,000 years.

Now consider me confused here. The year is chosen because this is seen as when the Roman Empire fell, yet this is supposedly the empire of Constantine that Johnson has been condemning. So why is it that this is the Dark Ages in Johnson’s view? Wouldn’t the fall of a wicked empire be a good thing?

In this short chapter, we will explore the cause of ‘Dark Ages’.

When we last left the history of the Bible, the Catholic Church hired Jerome to make a corrupted Latin Bible. The purpose was to go up against the true Latin Bible ( the Italic Bible ) of the early Italian Church.

I know we live in a society where conspiracy theories are often becoming true, but this one we have been waiting for for well over 1,500 years now….

Jerome completed his corruption in 380 A.D., and the Catholic Church adopted Jerome’s corrupted Bible as their standard. In addition to Jerome’s Latin Bible, the Papacy adopted another measure to: “… keep Europe under its domination” [S2P216]. We find out that

“… the Papacy was against the flow of Greek language and literature to Western Europe. All the treasures of the classical past were held back in the Eastern Roman Empire, whose capital was Constantinople. For nearly one thousand years, the western part of Europe was a stranger to the Greek tongue” [S2P216]. “The West became exclusively Latin, as well as estranged from the East; with local exceptions … the use and knowledge of the Greek language died out in Western Europe” [S2P216].

It is assumed that this happened due to evil intent. Why should we think that? It’s my understanding that the Crusades helped to recover this, but if this knowledge was so horrible, why was it accepted when it returned? Aquinas is even the main theologian of the RCC and he was thoroughly Aristotelian.

“When the use and knowledge of Greek died out in Western Europe, all the valuable Greek records, history, archaeology, literature, and science remained untranslated and unavailable to Western energies. No wonder, then, that this opposition to using the achievements of the past brought on the Dark Ages (476 A.D. to 1453 A.D.)” [S2P216].

The people of this time did not avoid the past. They were constantly doing scientific experiments and making advancements. This was actually a time of great education.

Thus, the people were denied access to valuable Greek records. And they were fed Jerome’s corrupted Bible.

So, during this 1,000 year timeframe, the sun came up every day, just like it had since creation. The Dark Ages DID NOT refer to a ‘celestial problem’. No, the Dark Ages referred to a ‘spiritual problem’.

Okay. So when the evil Roman Empire fell, we had a spiritual problem? I thought Constantine was the problem. Now we’re told when his empire is removed, that is the problem. I suppose the problem is I expect Johnson to be consistent.

The Church needs to learn a lesson from the ‘Dark Ages’. Edward F. Hills tells us the bottom line:

“From the study of the Bible and Church history two conclusions may be safely drawn. First, spiritual darkness and apostasy ALWAYS begin with false notions concerning faith. Second, reformation and revival ALWAYS REQUIRE the correction of these errors …” [S8P55].

I don’t doubt that there were false notions, but I do doubt that this was because Jerome’s Bible was corrupt. Was it a perfect translation? No. None is, but that is far from saying it was a heretical one.

At any rate, it would serve Johnson well to actually read real material about the Dark Ages instead of just the people who agree with him.

We will continue next time.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

Spiritual Deception in the Highest 9.1

What about the Waldenses? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

So we’re going back to this book by Jeff Johnson. It’s really sad that Ehrman gives me more to engage with than this guy guys, but such is the case. The source material can be found here.

Previously, we mentioned a group of people named the Waldenses (or Waldensians). We said that they made sure God’s Word was kept pure. We said this in connection with the Italic Bible of the Italian Church. In this chapter, we will examine their role in history.

As to these people we know that:

“The Waldenses were among the first of the peoples of Europe to obtain a translation of the Holy Scriptures. Hundreds of years before the reformation, they possessed the Bible in manuscript in their native tongue. They had the truth unadulterated, and this rendered them the special objects of hatred and persecution …” [S2P215].

I am not sure about them having a Bible in their native tongue, but that’s not necessary to the point. They did indeed hold a lot of doctrines contrary to Rome. We could consider them precursors of Protestantism.

“The Waldenses of northern Italy were foremost among the primitive Christians of Europe in their resistance of the Papacy. They not only sustained the weight of Rome’s oppression but also they were successful in retaining the torch of truth until the reformation took it from their hands and held it aloft to the world” [S2P205].

When Constantine became Emperor and ‘called a truce’ with the Christians, his effort was only a ‘surface gesture’. Constantine was actually a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Beneath his sheep’s wool, he was actually trying to unite pagan Rome with the true Church and thus dilute Christian doctrine with the heretical teachings of Rome. History records that the Waldenses did not fall for this deception. For instance:

“… when Christianity, emerging from the long persecutions of pagan Rome, was raised to imperial favor by the Emperor Constantine, the Italic Church in northern Italy – later the Waldenses – is seen as standing in opposition to papal Rome” [S2P207].

Unfortunately, nothing from Constantine is cited for this. This is a form of libel honestly and he would need to show that Constantine did this. If anything, paganism started breaking down a lot after Constantine.

Thus, the Waldenses remained steadfast in their faith. They could not be moved by ‘the carrot’ (i.e. a deceptive truce) nor could they be moved by ‘the stick’ (i.e. persecution).

In his book “Which Bible?”, David Otis Fuller exposes Rome’s efforts against the Waldenses:

“The agents of the Papacy have done their utmost to calumniate their [The Waldenses] character, to destroy the records of their noble past, and to leave no trace of the cruel persecution they underwent. They went even further-they made use of words written against ancient heresies to strike out the name of the heretics and fill the blank space by inserting the name of the Waldenses. Just as if, in a book, written to record the lawless deeds of some bandit like Jesse James, his name should be stricken out and the name of Abraham Lincoln substituted” [S2P205].

Fuller might have mentioned this, but Johnson doesn’t. I would like to see where this took place.

Not only was the character of the Waldenses corrupted in the documentation that has remained, but other records of the Waldenses were blatantly destroyed:

“The destruction of Waldensian records, beginning about 600 A.D. by Gregory the I, was carried through with thoroughness by the secret agents of the Papacy” [S2P206].

The Waldensians didn’t even come into being until the 13th century. It is unclear to me how their records could be destroyed before they existed.

And if this was not bad enough, the Waldenses were physically persecuted by Rome.

“History does not afford a record of cruelty greater than that manifested by Rome toward the Waldenses. It is impossible to write the inspiring history of this persecuted people, whose origin goes back to apostolic days and whose history is ornamented with stories of gripping interest. Rome has obliterated the records” [S2P206].

In his book “An Understandable History Of The Bible”, Reverend Gipp says:

“We find that Rome’s wicked persecutions of the Waldenses culminated in a devastating massacre of their number in 1655. They were hounded as ‘heretics’ until the mid 1800’s when their persistence paid off and the vile actions against them ceased” [S1P85-86].

Unfortunately, to an extent this is true. However, it’s important to note that Constantine has been replaced with the RCC as if there is a one-to-one parallel. Despite this, there is no dispute I know of about the Bible being used. What’s disagreed on is the interpretation.

We owe a lot to the Waldenses:

“To Christians such as these, preserving apostolic Christianity, the world owes gratitude for the true text of the Bible. It is not true, as Rome claims, that she gave the Bible to the world. What she gave was an impure text, a text with thousands of verses so changed as to make a way for her unscriptural doctrines” [S2P214-215].

So “Throughout the centuries, the Waldenses … had sown the seed …” [S2P224].

Thus, the name ‘Waldenses’ is forever recorded in history. For us, they passed on the pure Word of God (until the reformation would do it in mass). They withstood Rome. They held fast in their faith. And, they did this even unto death by massacre.

There is no telling how many souls were saved because of the Waldenses. Maybe yours, maybe mine. No one knows.

This chapter is dedicated to the Waldenses, and to the role they played, in history, to preserve God’s Word. Now, back to the history of our Bible.

I don’t doubt that we owe a lot to the Waldensians. I do doubt that they preserved Scripture while the RCC corrupted it. Johnson has given me no reason to think otherwise.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

Spiritual Deception in the Highest 8.1

How far does supposed biblical corruption go? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

So last time we say church history’s favorite whipping boy of Constantine whipped out. As we move on now, once again, Johnson lands on a new villain. Everyone has been involved in this diabolical plot and of course, this time the Pope is involved. We’ll be citing the source material from here.

After Origin, Constantine, and Eusebius:

The “… corruption of God’s Word was taken over by Jerome who was called upon by the Pope to prepare a Bible that would favor the Roman Catholic teaching” [S7P8]. “Jerome was furnished with all the funds that he needed and was assisted by many scribes and copyists” [S2P217].

I highly question this seeing Johnson doesn’t even realize that Origen believed that Jesus lived physically on Earth. However, one could accept this and still say Jerome strived to copy the text faithfully. So far, as far as I have seen, Johnson’s only sources are other KJV-onlyists, hardly convincing to those on the outside.

“Jerome in his early years had been brought up with an enmity to the Received text, then universally known as the Greek Vulgate … The hostility of Jerome to the Received Text made him necessary to the Papacy” [S2P219].

Color me skeptical that the Papacy this early was opposed to one version of the Bible. We have none of Jerome’s actual words cited, which considering he wrote a lot, would be easy enough. All we are getting is at best thirdhand information.

“Jerome was devotedly committed to the textural criticism of Origin, an admirer of Origen’s critical principles …” [S2P218]. To corrupt the Bible, Jerome went to “… the famous library of Eusebius … where the voluminous manuscripts of Origin had been preserved” [S2P218].

It would be nice to know what is missing in these ellipses. However, since Origen did the most work before this in the area of textual criticism, it’s not a shock if Jerome would want to utilize that. It would actually be foolish if he didn’t.

As to the manuscripts of Origin and Eusebius, we know that: “it was from this type of manuscript that Jerome translated …” [S2P195]. And we also know that Jerome’s translation “… became the authorized Catholic Bible for all time” [S2P195].

Which shouldn’t be a surprise if true. Again, Origen had done the most work on this at the time. Wouldn’t that make him a proper source to go to?

“… It was through Jerome that … Apocryphal books were placed in the Bible. These were soon accepted by the Roman Catholic Church as authoritative” [S7P8]. “Jerome admitted that these … DID NOT belong with the other writings of the Bible. Nevertheless, the Papacy endorsed them …” [S2P218].

And boys and girls, time to recognize the irony. Which books were included in the original 1611? Ding ding ding! That’s right! The Apocrypha!

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Apocrypha-Books/

“The apocrypha is a selection of books which were published in the original 1611 King James Bible. These apocryphal books were positioned between the Old and New Testament (it also contained maps and geneologies). The apocrypha was a part of the KJV for 274 years until being removed in 1885 A.D. A portion of these books were called deuterocanonical books by some entities, such as the Catholic church.”

https://1611bible.online/Apocrypha/

So obviously, the original KJV was in the service of Rome. Right?

Note at this it is not my goal to address whether the Apocrypha belong in the text or not. The point is the hypocrisy of it all. If the translation of Jerome is to be called into question for it, then so should the 1611 KJV be called into question.

In his book “An Understandable History Of The Bible” Reverend Gipp tells us that:

“Rome enlisted the help of a loyal subject by the name of Jerome. He quickly translated the corrupt Local Text into Latin. This version included the Apocryphal books … which no Bible believing Christian accepts as authentic” [S1P82].

This is quite a claim since I know a number of Christians who do accept, however, if this is the case, then the original translators of the KJV were not Bible-believing Christians. Why is Johnson defending a Bible that was not translated by Bible-believing Christians? Wouldn’t they be in the service of Satan?

“The Latin version of Jerome, translated by order of the Roman Catholic Church, was published in about 380 A.D. It was rejected by real Christians until approximately 1280 A.D. The Roman Catholic Church chose the name ‘Vulgate’ … for Jerome’s translation in an attempt to deceive loyal Christians into thinking that it was the true common Bible of the people … It would seem that such deception lacks a little in Christian ethics, if not honesty” [S1P68].

It’s amazing how much Gipp thinks he knows about real Christians back then. Also, what happened in 1280 that real Christians could accept it? How did the text change?

But: “The name ‘Vulgate’ on the flyleaf of Jerome’s unreliable translation did little to help sales. The Old Latin Bible, or ‘Italic’ as it is sometimes called, was held fast by all true Christians …” [S1P83]. Thus: “The common people recognized the true Word of God because the Holy Spirit bears witness to it” [S1P82].

So does this mean the Holy Spirit would not bear witness to the original 1611 KJV? After all, it had the Apocrypha. Why not include it in the Satanic plot?

So: “… the people for centuries refused to supplant their old Latin Bibles … The old Latin versions were used longest by the western Christians who would not bow to … Rome” [S1P84]. “True Protestants have always rejected … Roman Catholicism and maintained the very opposite” [S12P103].

One can reject Roman Catholicism without thinking all Catholics are outside of Christianity. There are Protestants who think that they are. I’m not one of them.

This ‘Old Latin’ Bible was:

“… universally accepted by faithful Christians …” [S1P68] and that “… it was responsible for keeping the Roman Catholic Church contained to southern Italy for years. It was not until the Roman Catholic Church successfully eliminated this Book through persecutions, torture, Bible burnings, and murder that it could capture Europe in its web of superstitious paganism” [S1P68].

Again, no sources are cited. Gipp is Samuel C. Gipp who has been on Ankerberg’s show defending the KJV. I find this even worse though since this is someone from a time where more and more of this information is easily accessible and if so, then that means Johnson is from this time as well and yet has chosen to not access this information.

Reverend Gipp says:

“Perhaps we should learn a lesson. Where the … King James Bible reigns, God blesses …. Oh, that America could but look at what has happened to England … Yes, the sun began to set on the British Empire in 1904, when the British Foreign Bible Society changed from the pure Textus Receptus …” [S1P69].

Also, not long after the Apocrypha was removed from the KJV. Maybe that’s why God removed His blessing. At best, we have simply a post hoc fallacy here.

Thus, Satan used Jerome and the Catholic Church to substitute his counterfeit Latin Bible. But, this corruption “… which we will now call Jerome’s translation – did not gain immediate acceptance everywhere. It took nine hundred years to bring that about. Purer Latin Bibles than Jerome’s had already a deep place in the affections in the West. Yet steadily through the years, the Catholic Church has uniformly rejected the Received Text wherever translated from the Greek into Latin and exalted Jerome’s …” [S2P220].

And again, all we have is an assertion.

T W O B I B L E S T R E A M S

In the history of the Bible, we see the development of two ‘streams’ of Bibles: God’s true Word and Satan’s counterfeit. This started in the Garden of Eden and continues today. In fact, every Bible both old and ‘new’, and every Bible in every language, falls into one of these two categories.

We also see that some people are (knowingly or unknowingly) propagating the corruption and some are passing on the original.

In the next chapter we will break from our historical study and look at the personal side of the struggle for God’s Word. We will look at a group of people, within the ‘true Church’, called the Waldenses.

The Waldenses, of the Italian Church, are trying to pass on God’s original Bible.

Their’s is an interesting story. Let’s review the role they played in history.

And so we shall, next time.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

Spiritual Deception in the Highest — 6.1

What about the Italic Bible? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

We’re going forward in the next step in Bible translation. It’s not a shock that Johnson punts to the devil here to make his case. As always, the original can be found here.

At the same time as the Syrian translation, but in another part of the world; the common language of Italy, France, and Great Britain was not Syrian, but Latin. Thus, for these countries, a Bible was needed in Latin. Therefore, the original Greek Vulgate (The Traditional Majority Text) was translated from Greek into Latin. This is believed to have occurred no later than 157 A.D.

“One of the first of these Latin Bibles was for the Waldenses in northern Italy …” [S4P98]. The Waldenses were: “lineal descendents of the Italic Church” [S4P98-99]. More will be said of the Waldenses later on, but as for the Italic Church suffice it to say that:

This part is a bit confusing. Is he saying one of these Bibles was the first for a group that came about 1,000 years later? It sounds odd really to make a case like that.

“Allix, an outstanding scholar, testifies that enemies had corrupted many manuscripts, while the Italic Church handed them down in their apostolic purity” [S4P98].

The only thing I can find about Allix other than Wiki sources is here. All we have here though is an assertion. No manuscript evidence is given of this. If Allix is also part of the Italic Church it wouldn’t be much of a shock to hear this said.

Augustine, speaking of the Latin Bibles, said: “Now among translations themselves the Italian (Old Itala) is to be preferred to others, for it keeps closer to the words without prejudice to clearness of expression” [S2P208].

I did a search for this quote and I cannot find it which is problematic. Without finding it, it’s hard to know if it is a real quote or not. If it is, I have no idea what the context is.

Dr. Nolan, who acquired fame for his Greek and Latin scholarship, traced the history of the ‘Traditional Majority Text’ to the Waldenses of the Italic Church. He says the Traditional Majority Text was:

“… adopted into the version that prevailed in the Latin Church” [S4P99].

This means:

“… the basis for the King James Bible has been proven to be in harmony with translations which go back to the second century” [S4P99].

Once again, the problem is that I cannot find who Dr. Nolan is exactly. I tried looking for the quotes, but to no avail. Either way, most of us would have no problem saying the KJV was in line with early manuscripts. No one is arguing that the KJV is a bad translation, but that does not mean it is perfect or even the best.

This statement about the Italic Bible of 157 A.D., along with the statement about the Syrian Peshitta Bible of 150 A.D., both date the ‘Traditional Majority Text’ with the earliest Church manuscripts.

For terminology sake we will call this Latin Bible the ‘Old Latin’. And, as history shows, it’s this ‘Old Latin’ Bible which agrees with the ‘Traditional Majority Text’ used in the King James Bible.

This Old Latin Bible saw widespread use. In his book: “An Understandable History of the Bible”, Reverend Gipp says:

“The true gospel was fast spreading all over Europe due to the Old Latin translation …” [S1P82].

He goes on to say that:

“The Old Latin Vulgate was used by the Christians in the churches … throughout Europe. This Latin version became so used and beloved by orthodox Christians and was in such common use by the common people that it assumed the term ‘Vulgate’ as a name. Vulgate … which is Latin for common” [S1P67].

Even if we grant all of this, so what? None of this argues that the text of the KJV is perfect in every way.

 

S A T A N  I S  N O T  F A R  B E H I N D

In the Garden of Eden, after God spoke with Adam, Satan came by to offer his own translation!

It seems to follow; that whenever God makes His original, it’s not long before Satan comes by with a counterfeit.

Satan will offer a counterfeit to God’s original Greek Bible as well as a counterfeit to God’s original ‘Old Latin’ Bible, and on and on.

Which ultimately begs the question. Johnson has provided no evidence of the devil corrupting texts and it seems odd that KJV-onlyists keep insisting God can keep His word pure, but apparently, it can also be easily corrupted.

As David Fuller points out in his book “Which Bible?”: “From the beginning there has been no pause in the assault on God’s Son and God’s Word” [S2P4].

Well since from the beginning, it wasn’t known that there was a second person of the Trinity or that God was even triune nor was there written texts of Scripture then….

The following quote, referring to Christ’s victory at Calvary, summarizes Satan’s actions against God’s Bible:

“Vanquished by The Word Incarnate, Satan next directed his subtle malice against The Word written” [S2P96].

The devil must have been awfully bored until 1611 to have no pure and perfect word to go after. Not only that, I find capitalizing word in the second sentence to be problematic. This puts Jesus and the Bible on an equal level.

We will continue next time.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

Spiritual Deception in the Highest 4.1

How bad can it get? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

So yesterday, I started looking ahead at what was coming today in our look at this work. I had heard Johnson use the term blasphemy, but apparently, he was blind to the idea that he would commit it himself. I have tried to be as charitable as I can, but there is no other way I can describe it as that. At any rate, the source material can be found here and we’ll be looking at the first part of chapter 4.

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God” (John 1:1).

Okay. Hard to argue with Scripture. This is a great introduction to creation anyway. Let’s see where he goes.

When the Word was written down, the Word was then called ‘Scripture’.

……………..

Oh my…..

I keep wanting to think he did not say this. I mean, I have seen other people say this, but for someone to say this and publish it on a website? Someone who is accusing others of blasphemy and heresy at every point? At this point, no one should take seriously anything Johnson says about interpreting Scripture.

Johnson has taken a passage of Scripture about Jesus Christ and made it about the King James Bible instead. I want to be charitable in my reading, but I can’t see any way around this. If someone can, I am open to it, but this just shows the idolatry of the movement.

Put in the Bible for the word “Word” in the prologue of John and it doesn’t make sense. This is more akin to a Muslim view of Scripture than a Christian view. This is treating Scripture as if it was involved in the creation account and is a person.

And Robert Breaker shares this as an excellent work? Says a lot about him too.

The original recordings of Scripture are called ‘autographs’. Animal skins and papyrus (paper) were used for these first autographs. Unfortunately, because of decay, these original autographs no longer exist. What does remain are copies, made by scribes, of these original autographs. These scribal copies are called ‘manuscripts’.

Okay. Nothing objectionable here at least.

The manuscripts of the Old Testament were written in Hebrew and the manuscripts of the New Testament were written in Greek. We do not have many Old Testament manuscripts. But, we have more than 5,000 New Testament manuscripts.

The number could be a bit outdated depending on when this was written. Unfortunately, I cannot find such a date.

From these manuscripts variant readings are analyzed and an agreed upon master ‘text’ is derived. From the agreed upon ‘master text’ a Bible can then be translated into the desired language.

The text is constantly updated based on new manuscripts being found, but we’ll accept this for now.

Thus our Bible was first the Word of God, then an original ‘autograph’, then a scribal copy ‘manuscript’, then an agreed upon ‘master text’, then an English Bible.

It seems a bit more complicated than that and geez, why favor the English language? The Bible is only the Bible if written in English? Something else I found myself pondering is there are dead languages now that we read, but no one really speaks. What happens if in the future English becomes one of those? Do we suddenly lose the Bible?

If any KJV-onlyists want to answer, I welcome it.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

Spiritual Deception in the Highest 2.3.2

What else is supposedly wrong in the Amplified? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

It’s definitely a labor of love going through King James Onlyism. As always, the original source can be found here. Right now, we are looking at the KJV compared to the Amplified.

Matt. 18:11

KJV: “For the Son of Man IS come to save that which was lost.”

AMP: “For the Son of man came to save (from the penalty of eternal death) that which was lost.”

Comment: The AMP says Jesus Christ “came” to save that which was lost; a PAST TENSE statement. The AMP implies that ALL who were to be saved, HAVE BEEN saved. Not true. Anyone, TODAY, can be saved by Jesus Christ. The correct reading is PRESENT TENSE. This AMP corruption is very subtle but very important.

Unfortunately for Johnson, this is false. The Greek word here is ηλθεν. Anyone is welcome to look it up even in Blue Letter Bible and you will find it is in the aorist tense, which refers to the past. Hint Johnson. You don’t determine the tense of a word by just looking at what you think it should be. You look at it by studying the word itself.

Also, I really don’t see the Amplified implying this at all. Johnson wants it to say this. This is just a failure of the principle of charity when reading a text you disagree with.

Mark 1:2

KJV: “As it is written IN THE PROPHETS, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.”

AMP: “Just as it is written in the prophet Isaiah: Behold, I send My messenger before Your face, who will make ready Your way;”

Comment: Sometimes verses in the New Testament requote the Old Testament. This is happening here. The verse being quoted is not in Isaiah, as the AMP says, it is from Malachi 3:1. Check it out! Not only does the AMP misquote the Word of God, it even mis-quotes itself. The KJV has the correct reading: “As it is written in the prophets …”, because Malachi was a prophet!

Verbatim what was said before. See my response here.

Luke 2:33

KJV: “And JOSEPH and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.”

AMP: “And His [legal] father and [His] mother were marvelling at what was said about Him;”

Comment: This is blasphemy! Contrary to what the AMP would say, Joseph WAS NOT Jesus’ father! God WAS Jesus’ father! Every Christian knows this! And contrary to the AMP, God was also Jesus’ LEGAL father. Think about what the AMP is saying: If Jesus’ had an earthly father, then He is just any man. If He is just any man, then we are still in our sins. If we are still in our sins, then we are not saved. If we are not saved, then we have a BIG PROBLEM.

Same thing again. See here.

John 3:13

KJV: “And NO MAN hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.”

AMP: “And yet no one has ever gone up to heaven; but there is One Who has come down from heaven, the Son of man [Himself], Who is – dwells, Whose home is – in heaven.”

Comment: Not true AMP. There HAVE BEEN others who have gone up to heaven. Remember the angels of Jacob’s ladder? They were ascending and descending. The KJV has the correct reading which is: “… NO MAN hath ascended up to heaven …”

Johnson repeating himself again. See here.

Acts 12:4

KJV: “… after Easter …”

AMP: “… after the Passover …”

See here.

Acts 17:22

KJV: “Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars’ hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are TOO SUPERSTITIOUS.”

AMP: “So Paul, standing in the center of the Areopagus [Mars Hill auditorium] said: Men of Athens, I perceive in every way – on every hand and with every turn I make – that you are most religious …”

Comment: Come on! Being “most religious” and “TOO SUPERSTITIOUS” are entirely different!

At least he makes my job very easy when he keeps repeating the same claims. See here.

1 Cor. 5:7b

KJV: “For even Christ our passover is sacrificed FOR US:”

AMP: “… for Christ, our Passover [Lamb], has been sacrificed.”

COMMENT: Leaving out “FOR US” misses the point entirely.

See here.

1 Cor. 16:22

KJV: “If any man love not the Lord JESUS CHRIST, let him be Anathema Maranatha.”

AMP: “If any one does not love the Lord … he shall be accursed … ”

COMMENT: Leaving out “JESUS CHRIST” leaves us guessing as to whom the AMP wants us to love.

And here.

2 Cor. 2:17

KJV: “For we are not as many, which CORRUPT the Word of God …”

AMP: “For we are not, like so many … peddling God’s Word …”

COMMENT: Peddling and corrupting are very different. ‘Modern’ bibles try and hide from the truth that they are ‘corrupting’ the Word of God.

See here.

Gal. 2:20

KJV: “I AM crucified with Christ …”

AMP: “I have been crucified with Christ …”

COMMENT: The AMP says their crucifixion is over! Not true. The believers crucifixion is an ongoing, PRESENT TENSE, transaction.

Same as above.

Eph. 5:1

KJV: “Therefore be FOLLOWERS of God …”

AMP: “Therefore be imitators of God …”

Comment: The AMP documents Satan’s position exactly. ONLY Satan tries to IMITATE God as Satan wants to be worshipped AS God. Born again believers cannot imitate God. We can’t rule the universe. We can only follow God. Remember Jesus DID NOT tell his “fishers of men” to imitate Him. Jesus said: “follow me …”.

Again.

Philipians 3:8

KJV: “… and do count them but DUNG, that I may win Christ,”

AMP: “… and consider it all to be mere rubbish …”

See here.

1 Tim. 3:16

KJV: “… God was MANIFEST in the flesh …”

AMP: “… He (God) was made visible in human flesh …”

COMMENT: God wasn’t just made visible, He was MANIFEST in the flesh. The image of the beast, in Revelation, is going to be made visible!

So at least we have something different this time. The terms however are pretty much identical in the original languages. The word lists definitions of both manifest and made visible.

1 Tim. 6:10

KJV: “For the love of money is THE root of all evil …”

AMP: “For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil …”

COMMENT: There is a big difference between AMP’s “a” root and the correct KJV reading of “THE” root.

See here.

1 Tim. 6:20

KJV: “… oppositions of SCIENCE falsely so called”

AMP: “… contradictions in what is falsely called knowledge”

Same.

1 Peter 2:2

KJV: “As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk OF THE WORD, that ye may grow thereby:”

AMP: “Like new born babes … desire – the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may … grow unto [completed] salvation.”

COMMENT: The AMP leaves out “OF THE WORD“. It’s God’s Word that makes us grow. Also, unlike what the AMP says, we DO NOT grow to “[completed] salvation”. That says salvation is by works! That is heresy. Remember: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” (Ephesians 2: 8-9).

See here.

Ultimately, part of the problem here is Johnson just repeats himself over and over again. How much research did he really do? Likely very little if any.

We will continue next time.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

 

 

 

Spiritual Deception in the Highest 2.3.1

What are the “problems” with the Amplified Bible? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

So it’s back once again to this train wreck of a work. Still, I’ve got into it and I plan to see it through to the end and it has been educational to some extent to look up some of these verses and see further evidence of how wrong KJV-onlyists get it. At any rate, the original link can be found here. For now, it’s the KJV vs the Amplified Bible.

The first will be two together.

Gen 1:21

KJV: “And God created great WHALES …”

AMP: “God created the great sea monsters …”

Matt. 12:40

KJV: “For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the WHALES’s belly …”

AMP: “For even as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster …”

COMMENT: God creates monsters?

I don’t think monsters is the best term to use, but at the same time, just saying monsters doesn’t show it’s wrong. After all, God created more than just whales and the term does refer to more still. Actually, when you look it up, the first definitions are dragons, serpents, and sea monsters.

Gen. 2:7

KJV: “… and man became a living SOUL.”

AMP: “… and man became a living being.”

Comment: A MAJOR difference between man and beast is that man is the ONLY creature with a SOUL.

Except this is a matter of interpretation and not translation. There are some people who think some of the higher animals do have souls. There are some who do not. The term is used to describe living creatures besides men even just within Genesis.

Gen. 3:4-5

KJV: “And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods knowing good and evil.”

AMP: “But the serpent said to the woman, You shall not surely die. For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be as God, knowing the difference between good and evil.”

COMMENT: This is major blasphemy! God (with a big G) is not evil! Think about the difference between “as gods” and “as God”.

Yes. It’s obviously major blasphemy to have the serpent speaking falsely about God in the Bible. The devil should only speak in ways that honor God! Rank blasphemy right there to have anything else!

Besides, does Johnson think unfallen man would have concepts of other gods?

Lev. 3:13b

KJV: “… and the sons of Aaron shall SPRINKLE the blood thereof upon the altar round about.”

AMP: “… and the sons of Aaron shall throw its blood against the altar round about.”

The Hebrew word can mean both sprinkle and throw. I leave it to the scholars of Hebrew to determine which they think best fits the context.

Judges 7:20b

KJV: “… and they cried, the sword OF the LORD, and OF Gideon.”

AMP: “… and they cried, The sword for the LORD and Gideon.”

Comment: Notice: “OF” was changed to “FOR”

Yes.

And?

2 Sam. 21:19

KJV: “… Elhanan … slew THE BROTHER OFGoliath …”

AMP: “… Elhanan … slew Goliath …”

Comment: The scholars missed this one! Most Sunday school children know that DAVID slew Goliath.

This one has already been dealt with here.

Daniel 3:25

KJV: “… and the form of the fourth is like THE SON OF GOD.”

AMP: “… And the form of the fourth is like a son of the gods!”

COMMENT: It was Jesus Christ, THE SON OF GOD, who was with Shadrach, Messach and Abednego. It was Jesus Christ who saved them from the fiery furnace. And, it is Jesus Christ who saves you and me from the fiery furnace (i.e. Hell). There is a big difference between “THE SON OF GOD” and ‘a son’ of ‘plural’ gods! Think about it.

Already dealt with here.

Zech. 11:17

KJV: “Woe to the IDOL shepherd that leaveth the flock!”

AMP: “Woe to the worthless and foolish shepherd who deserts the flock!”

Comment: Idol and worthless/foolish are very different.

Again…

Zech. 13:6

KJV: “And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds IN THINE HANDS? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.”

AMP: “And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds on your breast – between your hands? Then he will answer, Those with which I was wounded [when disciplined] in the house of my (loving) friends.”

COMMENT: Folks: This is a verse prophesying Jesus Christ. Jesus was wounded IN HIS HANDS (and also on His back), BUT NOT ON HIS BREAST! Also, Jesus WAS NOT BEING DISCIPLINED when He went to the cross! Jesus did nothing wrong! And, lastly, Jesus WAS in the house of “His” friends, but they WERE NOT BEING “loving” back to him!

Again, I dealt with this here. Johnson thinks, rightly or wrongly, that the passage is describing Jesus as a prophecy, but the problem is he doesn’t argue for it. He takes it for granted and then if anyone else agrees and translates it a way that disagrees with his interpretation, then they are obviously wrong.

And that’s it for the Amplified and the Old Testament!

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

 

 

Spiritual Deception in the Highest 2.2.3

What are the final problems with the Living Bible? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

We’re in the New Testament now in the Living Bible and today, we will wrap things up and then move on to the Amplified. As always, the original source is here. Let’s commence.

John 2:4

KJV: “WOMAN, WHAT HAVE I TO DO WITH THEE? MINE HOUR IS NOT YET COME.”

LB: “I can’t help you now, He said, It isn’t yet my time for miracles.”

COMMENT: His hour would come at Calvary. His HOUR and His MIRACLES are not the same.

The problem here is that both sides are doing the same thing. Johnson is arguing the hour is Calvary. The Living Bible is saying it’s the time for miracles. Both are doing interpretation more than translation. There is a rule that every translation is also an interpretation. Which one is correct? I’m not going to take a side, but leave it to you to decide. Either way, it’s a flimsy argument to say “This is a bad translation because it disagrees with my interpretation.”

John 3:13

KJV: “AND NO MAN HATH ASCENDED UP TO HEAVEN, BUT HE THAT CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, EVEN THE SON OF MAN WHICH IS IN HEAVEN.”

LB: “For only I, the Messiah, have come to earth and will return to heaven again.”

Comment: Not true, LB! Remember the angels on Jacob’s ladder?

Even if we went with the KJV, there are a number of atheists who would say that Elijah ascended to Heaven. A correct understanding has to answer both of them. When done, both translations will work.

John 6:69

KJV: “AND WE BELIEVE AND ARE SURE THAT THOU ART THAT CHRIST, THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD.”

LB: “And we believe them and know you are the holy Son of God.”

COMMENT: The word Christ means “anointed”. Why does the LB strip him of his anointing?

There are plenty of verses that speak of Jesus as the Christ. What Johnson is doing is taking one spot where this is changed. That’s hardly the way to go about a conspiracy to eliminate the Messiahship of Jesus from the text.

John 13:26

KJV: “JESUS ANSWERED, HE IT IS, TO WHOM I SHALL GIVE A SOP, WHEN I HAVE DIPPED IT.”

LB: “He told me it is the one I honor by giving the bread dipped in th sauce.”

COMMENT: Was Jesus Christ really HONORING Judas?

Actually, yes. He was. Jesus dipped the bread and gave it to Judas. Judas was actually in a place of honor. Had he not been the one to betray Jesus, we could be hearing more about how Judas was put in a position of trust. This is part of the grace of Jesus. Even His enemies were treated with love.

Acts 9:5

KJV: “AND HE SAID, WHO ART THOU, LORD? AND THE LORD SAID, I AM JESUS WHOM THOU PERSECUTEST: IT IS HARD FOR THEE TO KICK AGAINST THE PRICKS.”

LB: “Who is speaking sir, Paul asked. And the voice replied, I am Jesus, the one you are persecuting. Now get up and go into the city and await my further instructions.”

COMMENT: Jesus title “LORD” is changed to `SIR‘. And Saul’s name is changed to Paul.

See above at John 6:69 for the first part. Also, the Living Bible is a paraphrase trying to keep matters simple so the name of Paul being used isn’t a major deal then.

I Cor. 16:22

KJV: “IF ANY MAN LOVE NOT THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA MARANATHA.”

LB: “If anyone does not love the Lord, that person is cursed, Lord Jesus, come.”

COMMENT: Once again; Jesus Christ is separated from title ‘Lord’

Once again, in the end, Jesus is still referred to as the Lord. This simply boils down to “The LB disagrees with the KJV.”

II Cor. 8:9

KJV: “FOR YE KNOW THE GRACE OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST.”

LB: “You know how full of love and kindness our Lord Jesus was.”

COMMENT: Lord Jesus Christ is stripped down to: Lord Jesus.

More of the same….

I Tim. 2:5-6

KJV: “FOR THERE IS ONE GOD, AND ONE MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MEN THE MAN CHRIST JESUS, WHO GAVE HIMSELF A RANSOM FOR ALL, TO BE TESTIFIED IN DUE TIME.”

LB: “That God is on one side and all the people on the other side, and Christ Jesus Himself, man, is between them to bring them together by giving His life for all mankind.”

I am not sure what Johnson is upset about. He doesn’t say.

I Tim. 3:16

KJV: “AND WITHOUT CONTROVERSY GREAT IS THE MYSTERY OF GODLINESS: GOD WAS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH.”

LB: “It is quite true that the matter to live a godly life is not an easy matter, but the answer lies in Christ who came to earth as a man.”

COMMENT: Remember the test for the anti-christ. The anti-christ cannot say: “JESUS CHRIST IS COME IN THE FLESH“. Notice how the LB dances around this verse! Apparently the LB cannot say “GOD WAS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH!

Or it’s just a paraphrase….

I John 1:7

KJV: “AND THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST HIS SON CLEANSETH US FROM ALL SIN.”

LB: “The blood of Jesus, His Son, cleanses us from every sin.”

COMMENT: Jesus Christ is stripped down to Jesus.

It gets so tiring to see the same thing again and again.

Revelation 6:17

Rev. 6:17

KJV: “FOR THE GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH IS COME …”

LB: “Because the great day of THEIR anger is come and who can survive it?”

Comment: What do “HIS” wrath and “THEIR” anger have in common?

Well, let’s see. The KJV sees the one on the throne and the lamb likely as one and the same. The Living Bible translators think it means the Father and the Son. Both are pointing to the same source essentially.

Next time, we will look at the comparison to the Amplified Bible.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

 

 

 

 

Spiritual Deception in the Highest 2.2.2

Does the Living Bible hold up? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

So we’re now returning again to this. I started this series and even though it’s painful to see such bad argumentation as is common from KJV-Onlyists, I intend to see it through to the end. As always, the source material is here.

Job 3:26

KJV: “I WAS NOT IN SAFETY. NEITHER HAD I REST, NEITHER WAS I QUIET: YET TROUBLE CAME.”

LB: “I was not fat and lazy yet trouble struck me down.”

In this case, I again prefer the KJV. I don’t see any basis for fat in the text. All the words seem to refer to having rest. Lazy is understandable since if Job is saying he didn’t have rest, it would mean he was busy.

Psalm 34:20

KJV: “HE KEEPETH ALL HIS BONES: NOT ONE OF THEM IS BROKEN.”

LB: “God even protects him from accidents.”

COMMENT: There are NO ACCIDENTS with God!

This is an example of how translation is a form of interpretation. This would depend on what you mean by accident. For instance, in the Aristotlean sense, God has no accidents, but other things do have accidents. Is this necessitating that God is in direct control of everything that happens? A hyper-Calvinist would have no problem with that, but what does this mean if one doesn’t hold that theology?

Johnson’s comment raises more questions than it would supposedly answer.

Ezekiel 2:1

KJV: “AND HE SAID UNTO ME, SON OF MAN, STAND UPON THY FEET, AND I WILL SPEAK UNTO THEE.”

LB: “And he said unto me, Stand up, son of dust and I will talk to you.”

COMMENT: In the book of Ezekiel `son of dust’ is used in place of `son of man’. Does the term ‘son of dust’ sound as derogatory to you like as it does to me?

I can see the reason for the Living Bible using this seeing as man comes from the dust. This is true even in the KJV. However, the reason given for the translation being wrong is just dumb. We shouldn’t go with an interpretation because Johnson finds it derogatory? Personally, I find it derogatory to be told I’m a sinner, but sadly, it’s true.

Zech. 2:8

KJV: “HE THAT TOUCHETH YOU TOUCHETH THE APPLE OF HIS EYE.”

LB: “For he who harms you sticks his finger in Jehovah’s eye.”

The Living Bible is getting at what the text is saying here. Touching refers to harming and saying anyone who harms you harms the one that YHWH loves. It’s not the way I would phrase it, but it does work.

Zech. 13:6

KJV: “AND ONE SHALL SAY UNTO HIM, WHAT ARE THESE WOUNDS IN THINE HANDS? THEN HE SHALL ANSWER, THOSE WITH WHICH I WAS WOUNDED IN THE HOUSE OF MY FRIENDS.”

LB: “And if someone asks then, what are these scars on your chest and your back, you will say, I got into a brawl at the home of a friend.”

COMMENT: The footnote about this verse says: “That this is not a passage referring to Christ is clear from the context. This is a false prophet who is lying about the reasons for his scars.” We wonder how the editor of the LB (Taylor) came to know this.

Yes, boys and girls. If someone else has an interpretation that differs, you are to question how they got to it. If Johnson has an interpretation of a text, shut up and get in line! A man of God has spoken! Taylor likely just studied the text and looked at the context and determined what was going on. He could be right, or he could be wrong, but just saying “I don’t know how he concludes this!” is not an argument.

KJV: “AND HE SAID UNTO THEM, THIS KIND CAN COME FORTH BY NOTHING, BUT BY PRAYER AND FASTING.”

LB: “Jesus replied, Cases like this require prayer.”

COMMENT: Notice: fasting is left out! Wonder why Satan does not want us to fast?

I wrote about this kind of thinking in a blog post once. These people have a mindset that treats the devil as if he was the counter opposite to God with just as much power to alter reality, as if the devil alters texts regularly. These translations are just going by what the oldest and best manuscripts have and don’t think fasting was originally included. Johnson needs an argument to why the text he prefers is better instead of just saying “SATAN!”

Luke 23:42

KJV: “AND HE SAID UNTO JESUS, LORD, REMEMBER ME WHEN THOU COMEST INTO THY KINGDOM.”

LB: “Then he said, Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”

COMMENT: What justification is there to strip Jesus of his title “Lord”?

Probably based on the text used. Either way, the LIving Bible calls Jesus Lord in several other places and the thief does refer to Jesus as someone having a kingdom.

John 1:17

KJV: “FOR THE LAW WAS GIVEN BY MOSES, BUT GRACE AND TRUTH CAME BY JESUS CHRIST.”

LB: “For Moses gave us only the law with its rigid demands and merciless justice while Jesus Christ brought us loving forgiveness as well.”

COMMENT: The Old Testament contained God’s mercy and grace, too.

Because obviously one verse was supposed to give an entire interpretation of everything in the Old Testament….

Hopefully, next time we come, we can finish off the look at the Living Bible. After that it will be the Amplified.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

Spiritual Deception in the Highest 2.2-1

How does the Living Bible measure up? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

As we go through Jeff Johnson’s *cough* work *cough* we need to get something clear about translation. All translations to some extent are interpretations. If this blog was translated into another language, the person would have to think of the right language to use to translate it and that will likely entail certain meanings.

Some translations go with a word for word where you try to find the word in the corresponding language that matches the word in the manuscript. This can be hard as sometimes words really don’t have an equivalent in another language. (The Greeks have four words for love and we use one for all of them.) Some words are hapax legomena meaning they show up one time in the text and sometimes these words are extremely hard to find anywhere else if they can be found at all.

Some translations go with more of what is called a dynamic equivalence and the idea is to get the meaning out even if it isn’t word-for-word. Paraphrases are extremely like this. Paraphrases are meant more for devotional reading of a text. They are not meant for serious academic study.

But I suspect none of this matters to Johnson. He might not even know about it. At any rate, here’s the source material again.

Lev. 3:13b

KJV: “AND THE SONS OF AARON SHALL SPRINKLE THE BLOOD THEREOF UPON THE ALTAR ROUND ABOUT.”

LB: “The priest shall throw its blood against the sides of the altar.”

One can say the paraphrase doesn’t get to the main emphasis of how this was done, but that is not the point of a paraphrase. I don’t think throw is the best term, but again, the Living Bible is not meant for academic study.

Numbers 25:11

KJV: “PHINEHAS … HATH TURNED MY WRATH AWAY FROM THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL.”

LB: “Phinehas has turned away my anger for he was as angry as I.”

COMMENT: How can someone be as angry as God?

Brace yourself, Mr. Johnson. In the time that this was written, the translators, (rightly or wrongly) would have believed in impassibility which means they would not believe God could literally be angry. However, even if I did not hold to that position, I would still be able to recognize hyperbolic language, which is common to Jews.

Judges 7:20b

KJV: “AND THEY CRIED, THE SWORD OF THE LORD AND OF GIDEON.”

LB: “All yelling for the Lord and for Gideon.”

Comment: The two verses are not even close!

But if you look at what’s going on in the context, then they are close.

Judges 19:2

KJV: “AND HIS CONCUBINE PLAYED THE WHORE AGAINST HIM.”

LB: “But she became angry with him and ran away.”

Comment: Are PLAYING THE WHORE and running away the same?

In this case, I do think that the KJV has it better. That’s called being fair in translation and interpretation.

I Sam. 20:30

KJV: “THOU SON OF A PERVERSE REBELLIOUS WOMAN.”

LB: “You son of a bitch.”

Comment: Some ‘modern’ versions, like the LB, actually contain vulgarity. Notice this verse. Also, take a look in an NIV ‘bible’ in Ezekiel 23:20.

So let’s put up what Ezekiel 23:20 says in the NIV.

There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Profanity is honestly more of a social sin than anything else. Nowhere in Scripture is something said like “You shall not say these words.” I don’t say them, but I don’t fault Christians who sometimes do. If you look at these verses and your biggest problem is they use words that you don’t like in some translations, you have a bigger problem.

II Sam. 16:4b

KJV: “AND ZIBA SAID, I HUMBLY BESEECH THEE THAT I MAY FIND GRACE IN THY SIGHT, MY LORD, O KING.”

LB: “Thank you, thank you, sir, Ziba replied.”

Comment: There is NO similarity between these two verses.

Unless you, I don’t know, actually read the story.

I Kings 18:27

KJV: “CRY ALOUD: FOR HE IS A GOD: EITHER HE IS TALKING, OR HE IS PURSUING.”

LB: “Perhaps he is talking to someone or else is out sitting on the toilet.”

Comment: Sitting on a toilet ???

This is the only time the word translated “pursuing” is used in Scripture, but again, what’s the big deal? Oh my gosh! He said a pagan god could be sitting on a toilet and thus not answering! I suppose Elijah should realize he can mock Baal all he wants as long as he doesn’t say words that might be deemed offensive.

II Kings 21:6b

KJV: “HE WROUGHT MUCH WICKEDNESS IN THE SIGHT OF THE LORD, TO PROVOKE HIM TO ANGER.”

LB: “So the Lord was very angry, for Manasseh was an evil man in God’s opinion.”

COMMENT: In God’s opinion?

This is another case where I do think the KJV is better.

II Chr. 26:4

KJV: “AND HE DID THAT WHICH WAS RIGHT IN THE SIGHT OF THE LORD ACCORDING TO ALL THAT HIS FATHER AMAZIAH DID.”

LB: “He followed in the footsteps of his father Amaziah and was in general a good king as far as the Lord’s opinion of him was concerned.”

COMMENT: Again, God does NOT have opinions. Men have opinions.

And again, the same.

Okay. No need to overwhelm the reader. We will continue another time.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)