Tag: Romans 8:29-30

Book Plunge: Beyond the Salvation Wars: Chapter 8 Part 2

What does justification do? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

So what does justification do for us? In this section, Bates says it’s not just something declarative. Yes, we do become a new reality when God justifies us, but that justification does result in good works that are included in the justification somehow. From what I gather, what he is saying is that the justification of our persons results in us being the creatures capable of doing the good works that form in us the character of Christ.

In other words, what we call sanctification, Bates thinks is found in justification still. I am unsure how he sees sanctification then in the text and perhaps this is in another book, perhaps even the one I recommended he write in the chapter on salvation. Bates does think that we do not need a divide between justification and sanctification. It could be that sanctification is included within the activity of justification.

This section is worth quoting in length:

In sum, at least three problems exist with regard to the traditional Protestant distinction between justification and sanctification in an individual’s order of salvation. First, it is not biblical, since there is radically insufficient evidence in Scripture that these are inseparable but qualitatively distinct benefits attained in the Messiah. Second, in Scripture personal justification cannot be restricted to a judicial declaration of innocence but rather involves liberating ontological change that extends into resurrection life and behavior, including bodily actions. In fact, Paul says that actual behavior, deeds, will form part of the basis of an individual’s final justification. Third, Paul nowhere intends to describe an individualized order of salvation in the first place with regard to justification, but he does describe the collective church’s vindicated position in the king as a whole. Justification is a corporate benefit that belongs to the church; individuals come to experience this benefit only conditionally if and when they become united to the king.

Matthew W. Bates. Beyond the Salvation Wars (Kindle Locations 3930-3939). Kindle Edition.

Once again, one of the major problems that we have here is the idea of individualizing the text. (If anyone has done any research into this large history to see where this individualization started to be dominant in interpretation, I would love to know.) Bates says that this is not so, including in the Romans 8:29-30 passage. The benefits of being in Christ are only applicable assuming that someone is in the group that is loyal to Jesus. If you cut yourself off from Jesus through outright apostasy or regular unrepentant sin, then you do not get the benefits.

Now some of you reading this might be wondering about what role the righteousness of Christ plays in all of this. Is it not the case that Jesus gives us His righteousness in exchange for our sinfulness and He paid for that on the cross? How one is made righteous was an area of divide between Protestants and Catholics and again, Bates has a different answer.

But that’s for next time.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

Book Plunge: Beyond the Salvation Wars Chapter 8 Part 1

How does salvation come about? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

In this chapter, Bates starts off by saying that the mistake that took place in the Reformation was that both Catholics and Protestants made the debate over justification by faith. Bates holds that this is a true doctrine, but it is not a doctrine of the gospel. It is instead and effect of the gospel. It’s not that justification by faith is true, therefore the gospel is true, but rather the gospel is true, therefore justification by faith is true.

He says Protestants have typically seen justification as a declaration. God says a man is righteous and so he is. Catholics have instead seen it as a process with a man needing to live a virtuous life. I would like to say on my side that I think all sides agree that it is God who makes us righteous and also that all of us should be striving to live virtuous lives.

Bates from the Protestant perspective brings up Romans 8:29-30.

29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

First, he says that his model says that this should not be individualized. It does not mean then that every individual that is A is automatically B, C, and D as well. It is saying that God calls a group whereby he does A to them and then if they remain in the group, B, C, and D follow.

He also notes that sanctification does not show up in this at all. He says that it is put there because it is thought that first off, good works cannot be a part of justification. However, good works will be a fruit of justification and so after a person is justified, they will do good works. Then, that person must be made holy and so I take it that Bates thinks that this means those good works are part of sanctification.

Bates says that this distinction first started with Melanchthon, Luther’s associate, but that Calvin really took it off towards where it is today.

But what about a text like 1 Cor. 6:11?

And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Bates points out something that if one is looking for the order of salvation here should be immediately apparent. It is not in the right order. Santification comes before justification and also, I note it looks like if the people have already been justified, they have also already been sanctified.

He also disputes Romans 6:19 as a proof text.

I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.

Here, he says Paul is speaking as a pastor and saying if you live the way you ought and abandon sin, holy lives will be the result. He is not talking about the order of salvation. Thus, the two main pillars Bates says do not hold up.

But is justification simply a declaration?

We’ll look into that next time.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)