Tag: sacraments

Book Plunge: Beyond the Salvation Wars Chapter 4 Part 4

Does Bates have a better reading of Galatians? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

Bates wants us to consider several different points about the reading of Galatians.

First off, when it comes to the gospel being compromised, it does not refer to the content, but to the results. He specifically cites Galatians 1:6-9. They likely did agree that Jesus is King. They did not agree in how one is supposed to live in light of Jesus being king.

Second, their main dispute was how one displays allegiance to Jesus. They included following the Law as necessary to show allegiance. Bates does not say in the book how he would view someone who is Messianic Jewish and chooses to live by the law, say in dietary restrictions, not because they think it salvific, but because of a sort of connection they experience with their tradition.

Third, the troublemakers were not arguing a works salvation per se. They were arguing a works of the law salvation. This is an important distinction since in the time of the Reformation, it would not be arguments about the Jewish Law, but about works in general.

Finally, this does not exclude good works. One should do good works, but that is not for the purpose of salvation, but they are done because the King commands them and they are the fruit of salvation. This is the epistle where Paul talks about the fruit of the Spirit after all.

Bates then applies this to Catholicism. One of the problems is that in Catholicism, an individual is not allowed to have private interpretation of Scripture.

As the Catholic Church’s most authoritative statement, Dei Verbum, puts it, “The task of authentically interpreting the word of God, whether written or handed on, has been entrusted exclusively to the living teaching office of the Church.”

Matthew W. Bates. Beyond the Salvation Wars (Kindle Locations 1723-1725). Kindle Edition.

Bates says about this:

This puts the individual who is trying to assess the truthfulness of Catholicism in an awkward place. From the Catholic vantage point, no individual can make Catholicism’s fidelity to Scripture or history a criterion when testing Catholicism’s truthfulness, since neither

that individual nor any other has the right to authoritatively interpret Scripture or tradition in order to determine whether Catholic doctrine is in fact true. For Catholics, private individuals— whether laypeople, priests, Catholic, non-Catholic, or professional scholars— have no right to decide what Scripture, tradition, or Catholic doctrine truly means.

Matthew W. Bates. Beyond the Salvation Wars (Kindle Locations 1726-1731). Kindle Edition.

Bates’s problems with Catholicism are not that Catholics do not appreciate grace. He affirms that they do. All forgiveness is grace. It is not even the sacraments. One can fully hold to sacraments if they wish. The problem comes in the relationship the sacraments play to salvation.

A central Catholic error regarding salvation is the belief that the terms of true allegiance can be universally and officially mandated through a list of must-do and must-not-do commands via the sacraments for everyone.

Matthew W. Bates. Beyond the Salvation Wars (Kindle Locations 1760-1762). Kindle Edition.

He then says that:

Sacraments in general can be celebrated as helpful for the Christian life when their performative terms are not made mandatory for salvation. The traditional Catholic position is that the sacraments are absolutely mandatory, but as noted above, Lumen gentium has undermined this position by affirming that other Christian communions are somehow really “joined with us in the Holy Spirit” (§ 15).

Matthew W. Bates. Beyond the Salvation Wars (Kindle Locations 1767-1770). Kindle Edition.

Catholics do not fall under the anathema of Galatians. Bates still considers them fully in the Christian faith. I can say that I also love my Catholic brothers and sisters, seeing as I meet with a number of them on Thursday nights to discuss Aquinas via Zoom.

Next time, we’ll wrap up this chapter.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

Book Plunge: Beyond the Salvation Wars Chapter 3 Part 2

What about Catholic sacraments? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

In this section, Bates contends that one of the big problems with Catholic salvation is the idea of sacraments. Bates says that there is very little about the gospel in official Catholic works. To back his case, he says this:

The Paschal mystery of Christ’s cross and Resurrection stands at the center of the Good News that the apostles, and the Church following them, are to proclaim to the world. God’s saving plan was accomplished “once for all” by the redemptive death of his Son Jesus Christ. (§ 571)

That’s it. My edition of the Catechism has 688 pages. The gospel gets only two sentences. To say that “the gospel” is woefully underemphasized by official Catholic teaching understates the magnitude of the problem.

Matthew W. Bates. Beyond the Salvation Wars (Kindle Locations 957-961). Kindle Edition.

He then goes on to say that confirmation, the eucharist, and baptism get 144 pages of mention.

He also says there is a lack of emphasis on kingship and says that Protestants and Catholics should pause to applaud the Orthodox community for their emphasis on kingship. Of course, the Catholic church holds that Jesus is the Messiah, but Bates says the emphasis in a service is on forgiveness. This does not mean forgiveness should not be taught, but that forgiveness should be taught in the light of Jesus as King.

The last big problem that Bates has is with the idea of creeds. He does not oppose creeds, but says too often the creeds do not pay enough attention to Jesus as King. Humorously, I can think of how N.T. Wright has said that he can imagine the Gospel writers being at the Council of Nicea and seeing the creed being written where they go from “Born of the Virgin Mary” straight to “Crucified under Pontius Pilate”, and saying, “We spent quite a lot of time on some of that material in-between and we think you should say something about that.

Bates says that in his experience teaching in higher education in a Catholic setting, the message is not really known as the gospel so much as the faith. A small difference to some perhaps, but it could be significant. Does there need to be more emphasis on what is the content of the gospel?

It is important to note that in all of this, Bates does not accuse Catholics of holding to a false gospel. He considers them brothers and sisters in Christ. Of course, this does not mean that everyone who is a Catholic is a Christian any more than everyone who is a Protestant is a Christian. Insofar as they hold to the gospel points and live in allegiance to King Jesus as described by Bates, he sees them as Christians.

Unfortunately, for those of us on the Protestant side, while we might be the Jews watching the Gentiles get slammed by Paul in Romans 1, that same hammer is going to turn towards us. Bates is going to talk about the problems he sees in Protestantism. We’ll discuss those next time.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

Book Plunge: Protestants and Catholics

What do I think of Peter Toon’s book published by Servant Books? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

Discussions about Catholicism, Orthodoxy, and Protestantism was never something I really wanted to get into. I have been a subscriber of Mere Christianity for several years and been one wanting to look at defending the essentials. What changed is when my wife started asking questions and I realized if she’s doing this, I need to start looking into this. I asked a friend fluent on the issues for a good book on the topic and was recommended Peter Toon’s book.

Toon writes from a Protestant perspective, but his writing is friendly and he shows problems each side has with the other and ways that both could handle things better. There is no hint of anything that says that Catholics are an apostate church or anything like that. There is nothing saying that Protestantism is where the action is and we have it all together on our end. He points to statements made by both Protestants and Catholics that are good and that are problematic He points to honest concerns that both have about the other.

He covers the main issues as well. Not everything, but some of them. Authority is a big one. When I encounter Catholics, many of them say that it’s not really possible to understand the text of Scripture without the magisterium. Protestants reply that the meaning is in the text. Catholics say they gave the canon of Scripture. Protestants say canonicity lies in the books and the church discovered that rather than created it.

Authority I think could be the biggest issue. Where does the authority lie? This is the issue that leads to Sola Scriptura. Protestants say that the tradition cannot be known to be accurate, but we can study the Scripture and know that this is what the apostles said. Catholics see the tradition as being based in apostolic succession and thus reliable.

Other issues come up too such as justification. This is likely also before the understanding of the New Perspective on Paul so that isn’t a big debate in the book, but it was a major issue. Fortunately, I do think Protestants and Catholics are starting to come together to discuss these issues more.

Sacraments are also an issue. Protestants tend to only recognize baptism and the Lord’s Supper. Catholics recognize more. There are also differences on how the Lord’s Supper is to be seen. Is it transubstantiation or real presence or is it something else?

Mary is one of the last topics covered. Catholics often see themselves as defending the mother of God and upholding her honor and such. Protestants look more and say that it seems to border on idolatry to them. Unfortunately, Protestants then go and don’t seem to pay any attention to Mary. While we can think Catholics give too much honor, let us not be guilty of giving too little.

One nice appendix also in the book is a letter John Wesley wrote to a Roman Catholic. It is a letter seeking reconciliation and focusing on what is agreed on. Many of us do hope that one day there can be reconciliation. I am not sure how it is possible, but I can hope.

In Christ,
Nick Peters