Book Plunge: The Bible and the Ballot Introduction

Are we a Christian nation? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

I was watching the Facebook battle between Robert Gagnon and Tremper Longman over politics. I sided with Gagnon. In the comments, Longman challenged me to read his book The Bible and the Ballot. Seeing as I didn’t want to buy the book, I decided to go to the seminary library and fortunately, I found it.

So let’s start with the introduction.

I don’t disagree with everything Longman says. He says the the state is not the church, but I can’t really think of any Christians I know who think that. I am aware of Christians who hold to a theonomy position, of course, but not any who think right now the state is the church. This left me wondering who he had in mind when writing this.

The part that really surprised me was when he said that America today is not a Christian nation. He says this both about its founding and its present status. (2) He says that our founders did include some people of faith, but many who were influenced more by enlightenment thought. In the footnote, he points to John Locke.

I found this utterly astounding. For one thing, John Locke is the same one who wrote The Reasonableness of Christianity. He was heavily influenced in his writings by the Apostle Paul. Longman gives no indication of knowing about this. Would any of his readers realize this or would they walk away thinking Locke was a purely secular individual?

Second, there is the statement about the Founding Fathers, but no sources whatsoever listed on them. There is no interaction with an author like John Eidsmoe, for instance. The reader will be left confused and if anything, thinking the majority or at least a sizable number of the Fathers were atheists or secularists of some kind.

Third, when he says that America is not a Christian nation, what does this mean? Does it mean that there is no nationally established church? Sure, but that does not mean that the nation is not Christian. Does he mean that the government is not built on a Christian system of some sort? Even granting that, the government is not the nation.

Not only this, one of our founding documents, the Treaty of Paris, was done in the name of the most holy and undivided Trinity. Unlike the Treaty of Tripoli, there is no dispute on its wording. There is even a Supreme Court ruling from 1852 saying America is a Christian nation.

I understand that Longman is an Old Testament and Ancient Near East scholar and not one on American history, but that makes it all the more important to back claims that are made. Unfortunately, this simple section has left me puzzled by what is meant and wondering just how much of the Founding Fathers that Longman has interacted with.

Fortunately, that is the most problematic part of the introduction. Next time we look at this book, we’ll look at a guide on how one should read Scripture. I hope you’ll join me.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

 

Deeper Waters Podcast 7/5/2014: Bill Fortenberry

What’s coming up on the next recording of the Deeper Waters Podcast? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.

The Fourth of July is a holiday I always enjoy. It’s a privilege to live in America. Even when our country is not going the way I hope it would morally, economically, politically, etc. I am still convinced I live in the best country on Earth. But how is it that my country started? So many times we are told about how the founding fathers were not Christians at all. Is that really the case? I decided to have as a guest then someone who knows the founding fathers quite well. My guest this week will be Bill Fortenberry. Who is that?

Billfortenberry

According to his bio:

Bill is, quite literally, a product of Christian education. He attended a Christian school from kindergarten through high school and received a degree in education from Ambassador Baptist College. As a result, he never had to unlearn the secular humanism that permeates the American public school system. This has given him a unique perspective on many of the topics being debated today and a passion to share that perspective with others.

Bill first began debating atheists and skeptics as a freshman in college, and he developed IncreasingLearning.com as a way to share his discussions with other Christians. This soon developed into an online ministry specializing in the public defense of the Bible and its application to American society.

Over the past several years, Bill’s ministry has focused on political apologetics. He has written extensively on the biblical principles of good government, and his research for personhoodinitiative.com has made him a nationally recognized leader in the fight against abortion.

Bill has published two books on America’s founding fathers, Hidden Facts of the Founding Era in 2012 and The Founders and the Myth of Theistic Rationalism in 2013. Both of these books showcase Bill’s signature style of making his arguments from original source material that is available to anyone with an internet connection. Nearly every footnote includes a link to the original publication on Google Books.

Bill is currently working on a third book tracing the Christian history of the ideals which form the basis of American government. He is also working full time in a small business startup, volunteering as the development director of Personhood Alabama, and running for office in his state’s legislature.

We’ll be discussing the faith of the fathers and in what way they saw Christianity as important to the building of America. We’ll also be discussing the Treaty of Tripoli. Doesn’t that make it clear that America is not a Christian nation at all? For the founders who were definitely not Christians, did that mean that they thought Christianity was just unneeded in American society?

I hope you’ll be listening to this and thinking about it as it would have happened after we celebrated the 4th of July. Those of us who love our country know that it is great for a reason and what can help us remember that greatness is by taking a look at where it is that we have come from.

In Christ,
Nick Peters